police officer keeps man from dying relative

[amberdt03]

not really ems related, just wanted to see what some of ya'll think about this. just a summary, cop pulled over a Houston Texan running back for running a red light while trying to get to the hospital to see his dying mother-in-law. even after a nurse comes out and says that they are coding her for the 3rd time and need to get him up there, the officer keeps him for another 5 min so he could lecture him about attitudes. Dallas's finest right there. i believe they said the cop kept him for 20 min. needless to say he didn't get to see her before she passed.


http://www.wfaa.com/video/featured-index.html?nvid=346003&noad=yes

 

[ffemt8978]

not really ems related, just wanted to see what some of ya'll think about this. just a summary, cop pulled over a Houston Texan running back for running a red light while trying to get to the hospital to see his dying mother-in-law. even after a nurse comes out and says that they are coding her for the 3rd time and need to get him up there, the officer keeps him for another 5 min so he could lecture him about attitudes. Dallas's finest right there. i believe they said the cop kept him for 20 min. needless to say he didn't get to see her before she passed.


http://www.wfaa.com/video/featured-index.html?nvid=346003&noad=yes

So let me get this straight...a football player runs a red light to visit a dying in-law (not blood relative), risking not only his life, but the life of every near that intersection and gets caught by the cops.

A nurse comes out and says the driver is "needed up there"...bull. It may be desirable for the relative to be present in a code, but by no means are they "needed." Why would an in-law be required at a code if the rest of the family is there?

Reportedly, the cop keeps the driver on scene for 20 minutes, which may have included a lecture about the driver's attitude. How much of that time was spent writing the ticket, waiting for the registration and license checks to come back, and trying to maintain control of the scene? Anyone wanna take a bet on how cooperative the driver was when he got stopped? Somehow, I don't believe that it went along the lines of, "Here's my license and registration." but more probably went along the lines of, "Why are you pulling me over? Do you know who I am? I have to get to the hospital so that I can watch my in-law die....etc...."

But according to you, it's the cops that are in the wrong? :wacko:

What would you say if said football player, running the red light to see a dying in-law, caused and accident that killed/injured an innocent family? Sorry, going to see dying family members does NOT mean that you can break the laws, regardless of who you are or what you do for a living.

 

[VentMedic]

Since the incident was captured on the officer's video and after being reviewed by his superiors, they accepted fault for his behavior and have dealt with it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...F?slug=ap-nflplayer-stopped&prov=ap&type=lgns

By the time the 26-year-old NFL player received a ticket and a lecture from Powell, about 13 minutes had passed. When he and Collinsworth’s father entered the hospital, they learned Collinsworth was dead.

Police officials said Powell told his commanders he believed he was doing his job, and that he drew his gun but did not point it. Kunkle said Powell was not necessarily acting improperly when he pulled his weapon out, but that once he realized what was happening should have put the gun back, apologized and offered to help the family in any way.

“His behavior, in my opinion, did not exhibit the common sense, the discretion, the compassion that we expect our officers to exhibit,” Kunkle said.

 

[amberdt03]

So let me get this straight...a football player runs a red light to visit a dying in-law (not blood relative), risking not only his life, but the life of every near that intersection and gets caught by the cops.

A nurse comes out and says the driver is "needed up there"...bull. It may be desirable for the relative to be present in a code, but by no means are they "needed." Why would an in-law be required at a code if the rest of the family is there?

Reportedly, the cop keeps the driver on scene for 20 minutes, which may have included a lecture about the driver's attitude. How much of that time was spent writing the ticket, waiting for the registration and license checks to come back, and trying to maintain control of the scene? Anyone wanna take a bet on how cooperative the driver was when he got stopped? Somehow, I don't believe that it went along the lines of, "Here's my license and registration." but more probably went along the lines of, "Why are you pulling me over? Do you know who I am? I have to get to the hospital so that I can watch my in-law die....etc...."

But according to you, it's the cops that are in the wrong? :wacko:

What would you say if said football player, running the red light to see a dying in-law, caused and accident that killed/injured an innocent family? Sorry, going to see dying family members does NOT mean that you can break the laws, regardless of who you are or what you do for a living.

actually i saw the full tape and although the driver did give a little attitude in the beginning, only because he wanted to see her before her passing, he quickly calmed down cause he realized that it would benefit him. HE NEVER ONCE MENTIONED WHO HE WAS, so you can't say he tried to play the celebrity card. and although he did run a red light, he stopped completely, and waited till there was no traffic, before preceding. and obviously you've never lost someone close to you. here's a link to the full video before you jump down my throat again for stating what i think. the cop even says that "if his relative was dying he would be just as upset"

http://www.wfaa.com/video/featured-index.html?nvid=345766

 

[VentMedic]

From the link in my earlier post.

Kunkle said the video showed that Moats and his wife “exercised extraordinary patience, restraint in dealing with the behavior of our officer.”

“At no time did Mr. Moats identify himself as an NFL football player or expect any kind of special consideration,” Kunkle said. “He handled himself very, very well.”

 

[Shishkabob]

So let me get this right... the guy broke a law doing something very dangourse that we ALL have seen the consequences of, the cop did his job, and you guys have the audacity to berate the cop?

Seriously, this cop hate has to stop. As long as they stay within their bounds, no one has any reason to get angry at them.



Amber, where do you get the info that he stopped completely? I saw no complete stop at the second light he came to, and the fact that the officer had lights and sirens on BEFORE the second light goes to prove he ran TWO red lights... the one in the video and the one the cop originally pursued for.


But you know.. he had his emergency blinkers on, so it's all ok, right?

 

[VentMedic]

Not berating the Officer.

The football player admitted to running the light.

The Officer issued the ticket but kept his gun out his holster and continued to hold the football player.

The Officer's chief did not like what he saw on the tape.

Police Officers not only should be cautious with scenes but should also know when not to become the scene. Escalating a situation can be extremely dangerous. Luckily the football player was not looking for a fight or this could have gone very bad.

This is not cop hating but just hoping the P&Ps are followed to keep everyone safe.

 

[ffemt8978]

actually i saw the full tape and although the driver did give a little attitude in the beginning, only because he wanted to see her before her passing, he quickly calmed down cause he realized that it would benefit him. HE NEVER ONCE MENTIONED WHO HE WAS, so you can't say he tried to play the celebrity card. and although he did run a red light, he stopped completely, and waited till there was no traffic, before preceding. and obviously you've never lost someone close to you. here's a link to the full video before you jump down my throat again for stating what i think. the cop even says that "if his relative was dying he would be just as upset"

http://www.wfaa.com/video/featured-index.html?nvid=345766

I didn't watch the video, I was basing my reply off of the post.:blush:

And yes, I have lost relatives...a father, all of my grand parents, a nephew and a niece. At no time did I think running a red light would make a difference in their outcome.

Great, he stopped and only proceeded when he thought traffic was clear. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that a red light meant stop and proceed only when clear. Then again, I thought that's what stop signs were for.

However, the title of this thread leads to discussions like this. Was it really the cop that kept him from seeing his dying relative, or the driver's actions that caused it? What was the cop supposed to do? Ignore it and let him proceed on his way?

 

[VentMedic]

However, the title of this thread leads to discussions like this. Was it really the cop that kept him from seeing his dying relative, or the driver's actions that caused it? What was the cop supposed to do? Ignore it and let him proceed on his way?

The football player admitted to running the light.

The Officer issued the ticket but kept his gun out his holster and continued to hold the football player.

The Officer's chief did not like what he saw on the tape.

Quote from his chief from earlier link:

Kunkle said the video showed that Moats and his wife “exercised extraordinary patience, restraint in dealing with the behavior of our officer.”

“At no time did Mr. Moats identify himself as an NFL football player or expect any kind of special consideration,” Kunkle said. “He handled himself very, very well.”

One more time:
Police Officers not only should be cautious with scenes but should also know when not to become the scene. Escalating a situation can be extremely dangerous. Luckily the football player was not looking for a fight or this could have gone very bad.

This is not cop hating but just hoping the P&Ps are followed to keep everyone safe.

 

[JPINFV]

So I watched the video. As with any other interaction with people (police or not), you can either work with the other person or work against the other person. The decision over which style to use is situation dependent. An officer shouldn't approach a gang member with a weapon the same as someone who is suicidal with a weapon.

From what I saw, the officer definitely blew it. Obviously he didn't view the people in the car as a threat seeing how he immediately let the passengers enter the hospital. The officer even admitted that the driver slowed, stopped, and then proceed through the intersection. That is hardly 'blowing through' the intersection and, depending on traffic conditions, might not be entirely dangerous. Cars don't just appear out of no where. How often has everyone here been stopped for a good 4-5 minutes at a red light with zero cross traffic? I'll even admit that there was a light by my old work that I would regularly "run." Of course I could see in both directions down the block and it was almost no traffic on this street when I would be leaving work anyways. Illegal? Sure. Dangerous? Not at all.

If you've got someone sitting there going off on how a relative is actively dying (sure, we know that in a case like that, the relative is dead) and you don't think that the person is lying, what the hell are you doing lecturing the person, threatening the person, and telling the person to "shut your mouth?" It's like telling a suicidal patient that they could go to jail for some sort of weapons violation. This cop made a mistake in his approach and made the situation last longer and be more stressful for EVERYONE involved. Does he need to lose his job over it? Hell no. Should he have some sort of reprimand (even if it's a non-official "You f'ing idiot" reprimand) and retraining? Definately.

If calling the officer out if 'cop bashing,' then I guess his chief is a cop basher then. Look, I think most of us will acknowledge that the police have a tough job that requires them to enforce sometimes asinine laws (could someone again explain why the 93 south of Boston has a 55 mph speed limit again?). It's no different than getting mad at some store clerk for enforcing some policy that the clerk didn't make. Unfortunately that's life.

Anyone wanna take bets that if the situation was reversed that the officer would be all over running emergently to the hospital to be with his dying relative? Heck, I've seen the police airlift an officer to be with his wife as she gave birth (I was at the hospital when the helicopter came in, dropped one person off, and then immediately take off). I guess to be fair, both officers should have lost their jobs and be forced to reimburse the city for the cost of fuel for the helicopter.

 

[Hockey]

Officer had a slight attitude, but the family wasn't following instructions very good, so it didn't help the situation.

Sorry, but your not "needed" for a dying family member. The family member doesn't "determine" when its someones time to go.

Either way, not good for anyone involved...

 

[DR_KSIDE]

OK...... Since I am a COP first and an EMT second, I feel that I get a say in this.
First, no one including myself is above the law, what the football player did was wrong, he had ABSOLUTELY no right to break the law, failure to stop at a stop sign or light is still breaking the law, your hazard lights are not meant to be, nor were they designed to be used on moving vehicles, they are to be used when you are having trouble on the side of the road to warn other drivers to be cautious when nearing your vehicle, and running red lights, I am sorry but the only excuse is held by emergency vehicles, who show due regard for safety when going through a red light. Would I have done the same, you betcha, I would have gotten his information, informed him that he would be able to go into the hospital, and that I would be up to see him shortly, YES HE WOULD HAVE RECEIVED A CITATION, the only reason I would have let him out of my sight is because I would have had his DL and known who he was and were I can find him. This incident may have happened at night, with little traffic out there, but that is not an excuse for breaking the law and creating a real potential problem. The officer had every right to draw his weapon! You stop someone, and all of a sudden more people jump out of the car and come toward you, THIS IS HOW OFFICERS GET KILLED!!! What are people thinking these days, when an officer tells you to do something, just do it, if you comply from the beginning things might not go so bad. I have been in this situation several times and they have ALL been cited for their actions, I cannot excuse it. I am not being a hard a**, I have just seen to many accidents occur with less actions involved and don't need to have them kill anyone else.
Second, I believe the officer was well within his duty, but could have dealt with the situation better after the full story was known. The nurse is lucky, people that interfere with our traffic stops or other situations that DON'T belong, can also be cited or arrested, if when told to leave, don't. This (my examples and thoughts) pertain to the law in my state, and the law might be a little different in Texas. Now the officer might even lose his job, now that's BS, I could see some discipline, but getting fired for doing your job is extreme, and if he does get fired, I would fight it.

 

[bstone]

I love when I see cops in their police cars slow down at red lights and then drive through them. Usually late at night or at intersections where there is zero traffic. And no, the cops were not on their way to emergency calls, the lights were not on, no siren- nothing. We're all guilty of doing this. At 3am on the ambulance we've all done this (ok, maybe not Ridryder, but he is as close to perfect as humanly possible).

But seriously, this cop is young, immature and made a mountain out of a tiny, tiny, tiny molehill. The cop needs retraining and a lot of supervision until he can demonstrate he can pull someone over and issue a traffic citation without pulling his pistol.

 

[VentMedic]

OK...... Since I am a COP first and an EMT second, I feel that I get a say in this.
First, no one including myself is above the law, what the football player did was wrong, he had ABSOLUTELY no right to break the law, failure to stop at a stop sign or light is still breaking the law, your hazard lights are not meant to be, nor were they designed to be used on moving vehicles, they are to be used when you are having trouble on the side of the road to warn other drivers to be cautious when nearing your vehicle, and running red lights, I am sorry but the only excuse is held by emergency vehicles, who show due regard for safety when going through a red light. Would I have done the same, you betcha, I would have gotten his information, informed him that he would be able to go into the hospital, and that I would be up to see him shortly, YES HE WOULD HAVE RECEIVED A CITATION, the only reason I would have let him out of my sight is because I would have had his DL and known who he was and were I can find him. This incident may have happened at night, with little traffic out there, but that is not an excuse for breaking the law and creating a real potential problem. The officer had every right to draw his weapon! You stop someone, and all of a sudden more people jump out of the car and come toward you, THIS IS HOW OFFICERS GET KILLED!!! What are people thinking these days, when an officer tells you to do something, just do it, if you comply from the beginning things might not go so bad. I have been in this situation several times and they have ALL been cited for their actions, I cannot excuse it. I am not being a hard a**, I have just seen to many accidents occur with less actions involved and don't need to have them kill anyone else.
Second, I believe the officer was well within his duty, but could have dealt with the situation better after the full story was known. The nurse is lucky, people that interfere with our traffic stops or other situations that DON'T belong, can also be cited or arrested, if when told to leave, don't. This (my examples and thoughts) pertain to the law in my state, and the law might be a little different in Texas. Now the officer might even lose his job, now that's BS, I could see some discipline, but getting fired for doing your job is extreme, and if he does get fired, I would fight it.

You need to watch the video.

He got a ticket.

He did not resist.

One more time again:
Police Officers not only should be cautious with scenes but should also know when not to become the scene. Escalating a situation can be extremely dangerous.

If you are a Police Officer, you should know that.

None of us were there but his chief had an opinion about this and his job is to ensure everyone including his officers stay safe.

If you think the chief is wrong or want to play the heavy here, send him an email or call him up to tell him he is wrong. There is no indication that he is playing favoritism here for a celebrity which I don't believe this is even a well known player or trying to pacify the black community.

There are a lot of police officers in Oakland who have been saying should of, could of and would of this week. That tragic event illustrates what happens when a traffic stop goes very wrong. But, when a person accepts his ticket and admits he was wrong for running a light, what more do you want to do to this man? Turn it into a racial incident by teaching this black man a lesson? Make him at example for all blacks driving a nice vehicle that they can not run a light and get away with it even if they accept the ticket and admit they are wrong?

This man admitted he ran the light and accepted his ticket. It was time for the officer to move on and not continue to escalate the situation while knowing the reasons for the man's frustration.

Watch the video.

 

[DR_KSIDE]

Vent, I agree with you, the officer should have left it alone after the ticket was issued, but this whole situation got dragged into the media, if it was an ordinary Joe Schmo the media probably wouldn't have given it a second thought, but I feel that because this was a "football player" this was picked up by the media quickly. So I don't believe this officer is getting the fair shot at discipline that he deserves.

 

[JPINFV]

OK...... Since I am a COP first and an EMT second, I feel that I get a say in this.
First, no one including myself is above the law, what the football player did was wrong, he had ABSOLUTELY no right to break the law, failure to stop at a stop sign or light is still breaking the law, your hazard lights are not meant to be, nor were they designed to be used on moving vehicles, they are to be used when you are having trouble on the side of the road to warn other drivers to be cautious when nearing your vehicle, and running red lights, I am sorry but the only excuse is held by emergency vehicles, who show due regard for safety when going through a red light.

I don't think anyone is saying that what he did is not illegal, but as with everything, there are exceptional situations. Heck, I guess we need to start ticketing funeral processions now if the law gets a purely strict interpretation.

Would I have done the same, you betcha, I would have gotten his information, informed him that he would be able to go into the hospital, and that I would be up to see him shortly, YES HE WOULD HAVE RECEIVED A CITATION, the only reason I would have let him out of my sight is because I would have had his DL and known who he was and were I can find him.

To ticket or not to ticket is up to the officer. What's bolded, though, is what sets you apart from the officer in this incident.

The nurse is lucky, people that interfere with our traffic stops or other situations that DON'T belong, can also be cited or arrested, if when told to leave, don't.

Should the city cop be arrested also? After all, he pled with ticketing cop to release the driver to see his relative.

 

[Sasha]

Sorry, but your not "needed" for a dying family member. The family member doesn't "determine" when its someones time to go

Of course, I always take the emotional route, so here goes:

If it had been YOU and your family memeber was dying, you don't need to be there for them to die, but wouldn't you try your hardest to be there with them one last time?

He made sure it was safe to pass, admitted he did wrong, but was still held up by a spiteful officer who seemed to feel the need to strut his authority. It doesn't take 20 minutes to write a ticket, and the lecture really could have been skipped. He isn't the guy's mother, after all.

 

[ffemt8978]

Hmmm....is everyone forgetting about these parts?

He ordered Tamishia Moats, 27, to get back in the SUV, but after pausing for a few seconds, she and another woman rushed into the hospital. She was by the side of her mother, 45-year-old Jonetta Collinsworth, when she died a short time later from breast cancer.
“Get in there,” said Powell, yelling at Tamishia Moats as she exited the vehicle. “Let me see your hands!”
“Excuse me, my mom is dying,” Tamishia Moats said. “Do you understand?”
Ryan Moats explained that he waited until there was no traffic before proceeding through the red light. When Powell asked for proof of insurance, Moats grew more agitated and told the officer to go find it.
“My mother-in-law is dying! Right now! You’re wasting my time!” Moats yelled. “I don’t understand why you can’t understand that.”
<snip>

When the exchange was at its most contentious, Powell said he could tow Moats’ SUV if he didn’t have insurance and that he could arrest him for fleeing because he didn’t immediately stop when Powell turned on his sirens. The pursuit lasted a little more than a minute.

Multiple people leave a vehicle, disobeying the officers commands, and flee the scene into the hospital, leaving the officer to deal with an agitated driver who was quite literally built like a football player. How was the officer to know for sure, at the possible cost of his own life, that they were going to see a dying family member and not just fleeing the scene or even going to get more agitated family members to come back outside?

The officer obviously didn't keep his weapon drawn during the entire traffic stop, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to write the citation that the DA already threw out.

He did not resist. Nor did he, or his family cooperate and comply with the officer's demands.

One more time again:
Police Officers not only should be cautious with scenes but should also know when not to become the scene. Escalating a situation can be extremely dangerous.

If you are a Police Officer, you should know that.

None of us were there but his chief had an opinion about this and his job is to ensure everyone including his officers stay safe. And the other aspect of his job is to keep the public he serves happy, and keep his department from getting sued. All I am saying is that there may be other motives for the chief speaking out like this.

If you think the chief is wrong or want to play the heavy here, send him an email or call him up to tell him he is wrong. There is no indication that he is playing favoritism here for a celebrity which I don't believe this is even a well known player or trying to pacify the black community.

There are a lot of police officers in Oakland who have been saying should of, could of and would of this week. That tragic event illustrates what happens when a traffic stop goes very wrong. But, when a person accepts his ticket and admits he was wrong for running a light, what more do you want to do to this man? Turn it into a racial incident by teaching this black man a lesson? Make him at example for all blacks driving a nice vehicle that they can not run a light and get away with it even if they accept the ticket and admit they are wrong?

This man admitted he ran the light and accepted his ticket. It was time for the officer to move on and not continue to escalate the situation while knowing the reasons for the man's frustration.

So admitting you did something wrong and accepting the ticket is all it takes? How about NOT breaking the law in the first place? How about obeying the police officer during the traffic stop? How about not yelling at the cop during the traffic stop?

 

[Shishkabob]

Fact-- In the video alone, the driver blew 1 stop light, 2 stop signs, and refused to stop for the police officer. He also blew another stop light, which was the initiating offense.

Anyone else doing that would have been arrested.




I don't know what video the chief saw, but the player had a MAJOR attitude the first 4 minutes of the video. He told the cop to get his own insurance! Sorry, but that's not being "patient". Did he correct his attitude later? Yeah, but that doesn't excuse the first 4 minutes.

 

[VentMedic]

So admitting you did something wrong and accepting the ticket is all it takes? How about NOT breaking the law in the first place? How about obeying the police officer during the traffic stop? How about not yelling at the cop during the traffic stop?

Not too long ago, did you not admit to regularly driving 95 mph with a patient on board to the hospital? How would you react if an LEO stopped you for your disregard for safety? I bet you would pitch a fit even if your state law says you can not exceed the speed limit to that excess.

And the other aspect of his job is to keep the public he serves happy, and keep his department from getting sued. All I am saying is that there may be other motives for the chief speaking out like this.

So you do believe the chief did this because the guy was black? That starts to make your position against the football player very suspicious for your own agenda or reasoning in this situation.