Prehospital Cardiac Save at the pre-Inagural Event

[frdude1000]

Hello Everybody!

I would just like to share an amazing call my partners ran at the Pre-Inaugural Event yesterday. My unit is an explorer post with our local fire department and we are trained to the first responder level.

Just as the truck pulled up to their assigned first aid tent, somebody came up and said "somebody's unconscious! Please help!!". Two teenage first responders responded and immediately started cpr. They then got the aed and shocked the man three times with expired pads. Then, they got the pulse back! It is unknown if the patient survived at the hospital. Isn't that great!?!

 

[redcrossemt]

Congratulations!

They then got the aed and shocked the man three times with expired pads.

Where was this AED from? Why were the pads expired?

 

[frdude1000]

It was our AED and i'm not sure why the pads were expired

 

[daedalus]

First, let me say I am happy that a life was saved.

Second, I want you to be proud of your enthusiasm and take it with you into your future EMS endeavors.

Third, I am going to very very sternly to you something. I am shocked, disappointed, and disgusted in the EMS coverage of the national historical event of our President-elect's Inauguration.

They have pulled out all the stops and have every police and federal agency covering the event, so I am POSITIVE they have an Incident Command set up to make sure inter agency co-operation is accomplished and a single chain of command is followed. If that chain of command has allowed teen agers to respond to medical emergencies than it should be dismantled. Further, the use of substandard equipment on patients is unethical, unprofessional, and probably illegal.

 

[frdude1000]

First of all, the people who performed CPR and used the AED just arrived before the event started and had not been given supplies yet. They had an AED that they wern't planning on using at the event because it had expired pads. The only thing expired means on AED pads is that they are not guaranteed to be as sticky. Secondly, why does it matter that we are teenagers? We have the same training as others and we are trustworthy, bright, and responsible. That day, we worked in conjunction with DC EMS, the US Public Health Service Nurse Practitioners, and Park Service EMS Personnel. We give the same standard of care adults do and sometimes even better. That day, I helped a person who was having an asthma attack, a girl having a panic attack, and a man who fainted in the crowds, along with many minor hypothermia patients.

 

[Jon]

What is wrong with having Explorers or Red Cross volunteers ASSIST EMS at the first aid stations?


FRDude1000 - Is this post affiliated with a Fire Department, an EMS agency, a Law Enforcement agency, or something else? Were you there with other members of your group? Other members of your agency?

 

[daedalus]

What is wrong with having Explorers or Red Cross volunteers ASSIST EMS at the first aid stations?


FRDude1000 - Is this post affiliated with a Fire Department, an EMS agency, a Law Enforcement agency, or something else? Were you there with other members of your group? Other members of your agency?

A lot is wrong with it, but we have already had those discussions on this board. Looking up the threads, Rid/ryder has made some excellent points in the past. If by assist you mean hand out band aids at a booth, or collect donations, no its a perfect and honorable volunteer activity. These children were providing CPR!

Also, if the AED was not planned on being used, why was it there? And no, the expiration date tells you when something can NO longer be used. If that man had not been ROSC, his family/estate could sue you.

 

[Jon]

Daedalus:

The AHA has a big push to teach CPR to middle-school kids. I know PLENTY of kids in my high school that had CPR cards.

The other big push with CPR is LAYPERSON CPR... or non-ems providers preforming CPR.

I can't imagine that anyone would have dispatched an Explorer to an emergency... but given the scenerio of being flagged down - they had appropriate training and got things started before EMS arrived.

 

[frdude1000]

I think you have it wrong. I don't just have my layperson CPR card. I am a first responder assigned to a tent during the inaugural events to provide EMS care in conjunction with DC Fire and EMS, the US Public Health Service, and Park Service EMTS and Paramedics. We were dispatched to calls yesterday at the pre inaugural event and will be working tomorrow at the inauguration. My partners who handled the cardiac arrest had a duty to act, they were on duty. We are responsible for caring for the patrons and do a great job at it. We are part of EMS, we don't wait for it

 

[medic417]

Until you find out the person left the hospital in basically the same shape as before having cardiac arrest I can not call it a save. I am happy that they gave the person a chance but until we see the patient walk out of hospital they are still dead. This is one of the great flaws in EMS. To many claim saves for people because they did not die in the ambulance. I also tire of the statement nobody dies in my ambulance. If you are doing CPR they are dead. Just because you wheel them into the hospital to let the doctor pronounce they were dead already. And that brings me to another complaint, doing CPR while the ambulance is moving. It is impossible to do quality CPR and is against current AHA guidelines.

 

[daedalus]

Daedalus:

The AHA has a big push to teach CPR to middle-school kids. I know PLENTY of kids in my high school that had CPR cards.

The other big push with CPR is LAYPERSON CPR... or non-ems providers preforming CPR.

I can't imagine that anyone would have dispatched an Explorer to an emergency... but given the scenerio of being flagged down - they had appropriate training and got things started before EMS arrived.

I respectfully disagree.

Children with CPR cards are really just so they know when to call 911 if one of their grandparents starts to display MI or CVA s/s, and, to call 911 if they collapse. A noble undertaking none the less.

Children should not be exposed to cardiac arrest in a professional capacity. I cried the first time I saw a grown man die after working him, and I am an adult.

 

[frdude1000]

Until you find out the person left the hospital in basically the same shape as before having cardiac arrest I can not call it a save. I am happy that they gave the person a chance but until we see the patient walk out of hospital they are still dead. This is one of the great flaws in EMS. To many claim saves for people because they did not die in the ambulance. I also tire of the statement nobody dies in my ambulance. If you are doing CPR they are dead. Just because you wheel them into the hospital to let the doctor pronounce they were dead already. And that brings me to another complaint, doing CPR while the ambulance is moving. It is impossible to do quality CPR and is against current AHA guidelines.

It is considered "a pre-hospital" save, meaning we got a pulse back in the field. I never said anything about them living. They could have died in the hospital.

 

[frdude1000]

Wow. Again im not "a child with a CPR card". Maybe you wern't mature or mentally and physically capable of working in EMS when you were a teen, but I am. As long as we have the same training, why does it matter what we are on the outside? We act older than we are and are always praised for our professionalism and quality of care

 

[bstone]

Wow. Again im not "a child with a CPR card". Maybe you wern't mature or mentally and physically capable of working in EMS when you were a teen, but I am. As long as we have the same training, why does it matter what we are on the outside? We act older than we are and are always praised for our professionalism and quality of care

You're certainly not a child with a CPR card. Just ignore the guy who is saying that. I read about your save and I am really proud of you! You all saved someone's life and you can be proud of yourself for the rest of your life! Good job! :beerchug::beerchug::beerchug:

 

[bstone]

I respectfully disagree.

Children with CPR cards are really just so they know when to call 911 if one of their grandparents starts to display MI or CVA s/s, and, to call 911 if they collapse. A noble undertaking none the less.

Children should not be exposed to cardiac arrest in a professional capacity. I cried the first time I saw a grown man die after working him, and I am an adult.

Daedalus, I think your opinion has clearly been made. Thank you. Now let's not take away from the guy's moment of glory, ok?

 

[medic417]

It is considered "a pre-hospital" save, meaning we got a pulse back in the field. I never said anything about them living. They could have died in the hospital.

A save is a person walking out basically in tact. But congrats on getting a pulse back and giving them a fighting chance.

 

[daedalus]

bstone, anyone under 18 is child, and I did not use the term offensively. I congratulated the OP on his save, which is admirable.

There is no there medical profession that let minors participate, but than again, that is one thing that separates us from professionals. Also, the feeling of glory is yet another thing that separates us from our professional counter-parts.

I will exit the discussion now.

 

[bstone]

bstone, anyone under 18 is child, and I did not use the term offensively. I congratulated the OP on his save, which is admirable.

There is no there medical profession that let minors participate, but than again, that is one thing that separates us from professionals. Also, the feeling of glory is yet another thing that separates us from our professional counter-parts.

I will exit the discussion now.

I think that he might legally be a minor but he's clearly very mature. In that regard he's an adult.

I know of several ambulance squads which allow 16 year olds to ride. I even recall a bunch of high schoolers who run their local BLS squad. They are all clearly very, very mature.

Thanks for the chat. I think he ought to recognize the guy for his achievements, not belittle him. But that's just me.

 

[IaEMT]

Prehospital Cardiac Save....

There is lots of information we DON't have here. I'm kinda surprised at the vehemence this post has received. ALL levels of providers can provide initial care of some kind, and that care is (usually) better than none at all. These young folks should be applauded for pursuing a career most people won't consider. And I seriously doubt they would be asked to provide services at the Inauguration if they weren't certified first responders. I also doubt that they are unsupervised once they are actually on station. I do agree with the comments about the AED however. If the pads were expired, and they knew it, the pads should have already been discarded and new ones procured. I would advise a little better QC there.

 

[BEorP]

It is considered "a pre-hospital" save, meaning we got a pulse back in the field. I never said anything about them living. They could have died in the hospital.

If they died in the hospital, they weren't really "saved" then were they? Cardiac arrest survival really only matters when the patient is discharged from the hospital with a good neuro status.