What would you do?

micromedic

micromedic

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ok, here is a scenario....

you go to a nursing home picking up a pt on a wait and return... the pt is in a dbl room.... the other pt is your Best FRIENDS of 10+yrs family member and is very ill

you come back to drop pt off and other pt is now vomiting everywhere.... and is VERY ILL....

what do you do?

do you tell the nurse and leave it at that?

or

do you tell the nurse AND call your friend?


and 2....... if you call your friend..... are you violating HIPPA
what if friend asked you to keep eye on family member?
 
I would tell the nurse and call my friend.
 
HIPPA HIPPA HIPPA
Only the pt, immediate family or DP of Attorney who are involved in care can disclose or give consent to disclose information. If the pt asks you directly to contact...yes, but check with nurse...there may be other parameters/instructions for the contact.

Tempting as it seems, we can not talk about our friends, neighbors, co-workers or loved ones to others if you are INVOLVED in their care or have access to their information incidentially or professionally.

If a friend asks me to keep an eye on a pt, I can only if I am directly involved in the care of the pt. I can not look at their chart just for the browsing. I also can not disclose back to my friend anything I read or see.

You can tell the nurse and let her make the call to a designated family/friend/DP of A and pass on the message to call your friend.
 
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hippa applies bettween friends?
 
I can't tell you how many well meaning friends start calling wanting private information about pts. All tell us they are the very closest of closest friends. All we can say, is "call the family". We are not there to judge friendship, just trying to protect pt privacy and their rights.

If the patient is giving you consent to call, that can be different. If you are taking it upon yourself to call, friends or not, you could be violating their privacy both legally and as a friend.

Healthcare workers have to be careful around immediate family members also. example;
A wife may not have told her husband, children or friends that she has cancer yet.
or
The wife may not know the husband was drinking again or using drugs.

There are secrets amongst even the closest friends and families, especially when it comes to one's health. Families appreciate friends the most when they respect their privacy in crisis.

Also, telling someone something before you have all the facts could lead to speculation, gossip and unnecessary alarm.

I do agree with HIPPA in that I would not want to hear something about my spouse from a friend of a friend who saw a friend that knew someone that worked...

We could also open another Pandora's box with gay couples. Some places will still not recognize the relationship to even call the "friend" to update them because they are not married or blood. "Best Friends" won't work.

If the friend is close to you, ask to be put on the "informed" list at the nurses' station by the pt or family. It would be easier than if someone says they heard it from their medic friend in front of hospital employees who know HIPPA laws.

If you witness something as John Q Public, that's your business. If you get involved as a healthcare professional, that's a whole different matter. In other words, never wear your uniform when visiting someone in the hospital. It attracts attention, but not necessarily the kind you want.
 
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Don't let this person suffer because of HIPPA. Tell the nursing staff (as it was a medical issue that they needed to know about). The nursing home will then probably call the patient's NOK.
 
you know, i tell all the newbies the same thing when they ask just how far should we go with this or that VentMedic

there will come a day when , in trying to do the right thing for the patient, you will cross a few beuracratic lines

i can think of many instances, beyond hippa and the scenario here, that apply

i'm sure you can too

~S~
 
As a Nursing Supervisor in a Nursing home I can say that this would be a violation of HIPPA. Due to the fact that you were on call for a agency that was responding to a call in the NH, and not there to visit with this person. However If it was me personally I would drop that dime to my freind and let them know what what was going on.
 
I would tell the nurse and contact my friend. Who is going to pursue the HIPAA violation? Exactly :)

There is an exception to every rule. It seems to me like you found one.
 
Yes I would also tell the nurse before I left the facality....But the best bet is to drop that dime to the freind so the family can get involved.;)
 
Tell the nurse. Give the nurse the opportunity to handle the situation. If she doesn't act, tell the family. File a compalint against the nursing home if needed. Sorry but when a patient is obvious medical distress, above an beyond what they are being treated for, you don't keep that a secret. You are medical professional and you get it taken care of.
 
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micromedic said:
ok, here is a scenario....

you go to a nursing home picking up a pt on a wait and return... the pt is in a dbl room.... the other pt is your Best FRIENDS of 10+yrs family member and is very ill

you come back to drop pt off and other pt is now vomiting everywhere.... and is VERY ILL....

what do you do?

do you tell the nurse and leave it at that?

or

do you tell the nurse AND call your friend?


and 2....... if you call your friend..... are you violating HIPPA
what if friend asked you to keep eye on family member?
Click to expand...

I would tell the nurse and let it be cuz the only person that can call the family in that situation is the doctor or the nurse unless you are asked to call them by the doctor or the nurse.
 
There are ways around HIPPA. HIPPA allows us to discuss calls without mentioning names. So if what you are telling your friend is non-specific to a particular patient say something like this. "Hey... I was at the same facility where your family member is the other day and it got me to thinking about (insert name here) How is your family member doing there? Checked on them recently? I would go and see them if I were you! No seriously, like today!"

What personal information about a specific pt. was divulged in that scenario?

I think we're getting too carried away with the HIPPA thing. What was begun as a way to stop insurance companies from selling our personal health records to the highest bidder has turned into something very different.
 
Well... you have a delima here... or well... not really a delima. Here is what I would do... and don't hold what I would to as to what you should do... but here goes....

First of all... yes... it's HIPPA!!!! Secondly... it may sound cold hearted... but... it's not your emergency... and going further than that... you were not called to that emergency, you were called to the other patient. Now...you could stay with the other patient until the nurse gets in there, not treating, but just watching to see how fast the nurse comes... and this could be interesting... better than TV. This accomplishes two things... you get entertained, and you are also still tied up so that you don't get sent on any more trips at that present time, ie, you can call it entertaining down time. You can't call the friend, it's not your place, and is also against the law!!! You really shouldn't do anything for the patient as it's not your patient, and you don't have a duty to act because you were not called. This could also leave you wide open for trouble. Anyone agree???
 
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No. Your obligated to get the nurse in the room to treat the patient.
 
micromedic said:
ok, here is a scenario....

you go to a nursing home picking up a pt on a wait and return... the pt is in a dbl room.... the other pt is your Best FRIENDS of 10+yrs family member and is very ill

you come back to drop pt off and other pt is now vomiting everywhere.... and is VERY ILL....
Click to expand...

Wait.. so you took Bed A to an appointment and then brought them back, and you found your friends family member in Bed B having medical issues?

If that's the situation, and we were less than 10 minutes from an ER, I'd be telling one of the care home nurses. If they didn't do squat or seemed apathetic like many care home staff members are, we'd pick them up and high tail it to the ER.
But I would suspect that the care home folks would come in the room, look at me, and say "well, take her to the hospital!" and then they'd flee.
 
fm_emt said:
Wait.. so you took Bed A to an appointment and then brought them back, and you found your friends family member in Bed B having medical issues?

If that's the situation, and we were less than 10 minutes from an ER, I'd be telling one of the care home nurses. If they didn't do squat or seemed apathetic like many care home staff members are, we'd pick them up and high tail it to the ER.
But I would suspect that the care home folks would come in the room, look at me, and say "well, take her to the hospital!" and then they'd flee.
Click to expand...
Yeah... that's about my read on the situation.

I'd be hesitant to call the friend and violate privacy act regulations... but I'd also want the patient to get the best care possible... if the staff said that she was "fine" and being treated, and refused my assistance, I really couldn't help the patient, but my friend could, by coming and demanding that their family member be transported to the hosptial... I like BossyCow's approach on that one.
 
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