Too Old To Work
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What do you folks think of this?
- Thread starter Too Old To Work
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firetender
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We human beings burn out in many different shades of fire!
abckidsmom
Dances with Patients
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I'll go out on a limb and say that I've heard of that happening. If it was on the way to the hospital and not out of the way for the patient, the driver had spoken with his relief to have them waiting out for them, and there was no delay beyond stopping the truck for a driver exchange, I don't see any big deal on a non-emergency transport.
Sounds like this guy went a little beyond that, and there aren't that many details in the story.
I think he should probably be disciplined, but I'm not as outraged as a lot of people are about that story.
Sounds like this guy went a little beyond that, and there aren't that many details in the story.
I think he should probably be disciplined, but I'm not as outraged as a lot of people are about that story.
medicRob
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Read that about 10 minutes ago on my iPhone. I was personally apalled. We have all had those shifts where it was 5 minutes 'til our shift is over, and all the sudden, we get a call to transfer patient x to facility y 105 miles away.
Does it piss me off? You bet it does.
Is it my job? Sure is.
Do I do it? You bet.
The TN State board of EMS is made up of some highly intellegent individuals who have been in EMS for many years, they can hand down an ***-whippin to your professional career, the likes of which haven't been seen.
Based on similar consent orders and situations like this with the state of TN that I have read, I will go out on a limb here and say that they will move for immediate revocation of his license, file him in the TN database for patient abuse (abandonment is a criteria), and if this is punishable by law (not sure if it is), they will go through the process, whatever it may be to see that he goes before a judge for this.
JPINFV
Gadfly
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I wonder how many people would be PO'ed if they were buying groceries and, in the middle of checking their order, decided to cash out the register for an off going checker and cash in a new checker?
8jimi8
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Purely Devil's advocate here.
Haven't read the story...
let's just talk about the abondoment issue, if you don't mind -
Does what he did constitute abandonment? Just curious, handed off to a person of = or higher training.
Wouldn't it be like an ALS intercept? BLS truck rolls, pt needs ALS, they meet at wendy's, transfer trucks and go.
I'm not saying that is the scenario, just a curious question.
Haven't read the story...
let's just talk about the abondoment issue, if you don't mind -
Does what he did constitute abandonment? Just curious, handed off to a person of = or higher training.
Wouldn't it be like an ALS intercept? BLS truck rolls, pt needs ALS, they meet at wendy's, transfer trucks and go.
I'm not saying that is the scenario, just a curious question.
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OP
OP
Too Old To Work
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I was in a restaurant once and the waitress had a fight with the manager and quit while I was waiting for dinner. It was kind of funny, but awkward at the same time.
To answer to MedicRob, I don't know that you could make a good case for abandonment here. He was not providing patient care at the time, nor was the patient left without someone to treat him.
Which doesn't mean that firing isn't justified. If nothing else, it shows very questionable judgment on his part.
Patient abandonment is the unilateral severing of the patient - practitioner by the practitioner without making provision for continuity of care. That whole thing about handing off to a person of equal or greater capability is BS. If it were true, a physician would have to stay with a patient every second that they were in the hospital or his office. Handing someone who doesn't need ALS off to a BLS crew is not abandonment.
I don't think that this rises to that standard either. Again, it's stupid, but it's not abandonment.
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8jimi8
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just to say it, i totally agree it was inappropriate. I just didn't see an abandonment issue.
not that i'm trying to get high fived Rob...
h34r:
not that i'm trying to get high fived Rob...
h34r:
medicRob
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just to say it, i totally agree it was inappropriate. I just didn't see an abandonment issue.
not that i'm trying to get high fived Rob...
h34r:I suppose that can be debated. Abandonment might not have been the correct term. Let me post this question:
"If I were driving an ambulance and another Paramedic was in the back and all the sudden, I just parked the ambulance on the side of the road,
is that patient abandonment? The paramedic in the back can't drive the rig and treat the patient at the same time." By driving that ambulance, I am
just as responsible for the patient in the back as the Paramedic that is physically tending to them.
Perhaps, "Delaying definitive treatment" would have been a more appropriate way of putting it. I was freebasing crystal meth with Whitney & Bobby
and eating french fries when I responded, so pay no attention to me.. mostly on account of the french fries.
An EMT's job is the continuation of care, in a way he did facilitate the continuation of care, but in doing so--he blatantly disregarded his duty
as an EMT, and delayed transport time to definitive care.
Also, the Paramedic in the back told him there was no need to stop, this is another thing to take into consideration.
What are your thoughts on this, Jimi?
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medicman90
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just to say it, i totally agree it was inappropriate. I just didn't see an abandonment issue.
not that i'm trying to get high fived Rob...
Agreed.
EMT -> EMT transfer is NOT abandonment.
I do have a question though...if I arrive on scene with a paramedic and an ambulance.
Like...dispatch sends Medic 1 and Ambulance 1
Medic 1 gets there before I do.
Then Ambulance 1 (me) gets there.
(Medic = EMT-P, Ambulance = EMT-B)
Is it abandonment for Medic 1 to say "ya'll take this?" if we can handle it?
I don't think the guy should be fired.
In a major city, there exists the possibility he will be reassigned to a suppresion unit. A benefit for all involved. I'd torture him by making him the BC's permanant driver and he would never get to go on an interior endevor again.
I have worked in 2 services that would sometimes trade crews in between calls. Never swapped out with a patient already on board though. Easier to just have the oncoming crew meet you at the hospital or the scene and drive thier vehicle back to the station to get yours.
In a major city, there exists the possibility he will be reassigned to a suppresion unit. A benefit for all involved. I'd torture him by making him the BC's permanant driver and he would never get to go on an interior endevor again.
I have worked in 2 services that would sometimes trade crews in between calls. Never swapped out with a patient already on board though. Easier to just have the oncoming crew meet you at the hospital or the scene and drive thier vehicle back to the station to get yours.
8jimi8
CFRN
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I am in complete agreement, he did delay care. For a completely selfish reason. I do agree that there should be some type of punitive action. Honestly I feel that someone who is willing to cut corners like that deserves to be no where near live patients. Not to mention with ethics like that, I wouldn't want him to be my partner in a fire...
I suppose that can be debated. Abandonment might not have been the correct term. Let me post this question:
"If I were driving an ambulance and another Paramedic was in the back and all the sudden, I just parked the ambulance on the side of the road,
is that patient abandonment? The paramedic in the back can't drive the rig and treat the patient at the same time." By driving that ambulance, I am
just as responsible for the patient in the back as the Paramedic that is physically tending to them.
Perhaps, "Delaying definitive treatment" would have been a more appropriate way of putting it. I was freebasing crystal meth with Whitney & Bobby
and eating french fries when I responded, so pay no attention to me.. mostly on account of the french fries.
An EMT's job is the continuation of care, in a way he did facilitate the continuation of care, but in doing so--he blatantly disregarded his duty
as an EMT, and delayed transport time to definitive care.
Also, the Paramedic in the back told him there was no need to stop, this is another thing to take into consideration.
What are your thoughts on this, Jimi?
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Outbac1
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We do crew exchanges on long haul transfers, but not if the pt is critical. You just have to suck up the overtime. It is also not done on emergency calls. If I took a pt to the base enroute to the hosp on an emergency call so I could do a crew change I would have several days unpaid vacation at the least. We finish the call and put in for the overtime.