What are we attracting to enter EMS?

Ridryder911

Ridryder911

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After reading multiple posts on EMS forums, from the "Not wanting to be touched", "Paramedic steals body parts" to " I don't want to have to attempt to resuscitate anyone" . It has made me wonder, who and what we are attracting to enter the EMS profession?

Unfortunately, we (instructors) know that when the NREMT made a statement that "many are now attempting to enter EMS, when they fail the fries section" ... they were not joking. From either the formal NASA rocket scientist that retired or the one that has ran out of options.

Are people entering for the right reasons? Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career? Should we allow anyone to enter? Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic? Are we producing EMT"s and Paramedics with unrealistic expectations? What they expect and what it really consists of is much different?

Discussion? I will hold my comments for a while?
 
Ridryder911 said:
Are people entering for the right reasons?
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what are the right reasons?

Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career?
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No. People should allowed to study EMS for whatever personal reasons they want.

Should we allow anyone to enter? Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic?
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We don't get enough education. Education should be the "barrier". Basic EMT should be a 2 year course with paramedic a 4 year course.

Are we producing EMT"s and Paramedics with unrealistic expectations? What they expect and what it really consists of is much different?
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I am always skeptical of people wanting to alter "expectations". More ride time in classes should be done to see if the person likes what we do.
Discussion? I will hold my comments for a while?[/QUOTE]
 
The problem is the "mills". They take anyone that applies. There is no more interview process, where only the best candidates get to go on. There is no problem screening people for EMS work. PD's screen their applicants. They preform psych evaluations and major background checks. This is what our schools should be doing. Not letting anyone who wants to go, take the class.
 
Ridryder911 said:
Are people entering for the right reasons? If you mean Paramedic school / Paramedic profession, most are not. In my personal experience, most are aspiring firefighters wanting in because it's an "easy" job where they can hang out, eat, sleep, and fool around all day and go be the badass hero occasionally. Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career? Absolutely. Actually, there WAS a screening process for Paramedic school here, but I was still very disappointed with the amount of I-don't-care-about-people-I-just-want-to-be-the-cool-hero types that made their way in. Should we allow anyone to enter? No. Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic? No, it sadly wasn't. Are we producing EMT"s and Paramedics with unrealistic expectations? Yes, we are. Needs to stress less the hero and glory aspects and more the public servitude and personal relations aspects of it. Need to stress what this job really is. What they expect and what it really consists of is much different? Much different. Rescue Me, anyone?

Discussion? I will hold my comments for a while?
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Don't hold off on your comments. I don't necessarily agree with you on most topics like others do, but I am disappointed with those around me. I feel like the profession that I chose for the RIGHT reasons (I wanted to spend time with the public, interact with the public, help the public) is being degraded and thought of as a joke because it's overpopulated by those defaulting in on an expectation of being able to sit around all day and get paid to watch TV. I'd like to be respected and viewed as someone that really cares about the public and wants to help. Not someone that will unhappily show up at a scene and unhappily treat a patient as quickly and recklessly as possible so I can return to the station and finish watching the game.

I want to blame the Firefighters for that attitude, because it's a huge part of my personal experience, but I want to note, to be fair, that there exists the same kind of person in the private sector. Just not as many, it seems. I just don't believe EMS should be part of Fire departments. When I used to do my ride alongs at the fire stations, the firefighters would actually play rock-paper-scissors to decide who would ride as a medic that day. Whoever lost would grumble unhappily and in anger, throw their gear in the back of the ambulance, stomping back into station mumbling angrily under their breath. And trust me, that didn't try very hard to hide these feelings from the patients either. This was a better fire service too. And, of course, any new employee would find themselves riding the ambulance (unhappily) for several years before even being considered for fire.

I just think a lot of the problem has to do with:

1. unrealistic expectations of it being an easy career where you get paid to sit around most of the time and be a hero the rest of the time.

2. EMS now being an undesired stepping stone of the Fire profession and aspiring firefighters being unhappily forced to participate in EMS when they really quite honestly aren't interested in medicine at all.

How to fix? Make EMS a medical profession. Strictly. Stricter guidelines on who enters the field. Interviews, explanations on the average day of a paramedic. Less of the cardiac arrest saves that never happen, and more of holding a dying woman's hand, sitting down with and comforting that SIDS family, being insulted and thrown up on by the drunks, etc, etc. We're not on-call heroes. We're public servants. Make sure people know that going in.
 
I have mixed feeling about this Rid. I know that there are people out there that love EMS and love helping people, regardless of having to attemp another resuscitation, being touched, being barfed on, and being sworn at by family for 20 minutes. But I also know that there are people out there that get their EMT-B so they can drive by a friends house in an ambulance with lights and sirens and then get to the p/t's side and not really give a rats a$$.

"Are people entering for the right reasons?"
I don't know, some are, some aren't.. it's hard to tell until you work with them for a while.

Should we allow anyone to enter? Was emphasis placed during the educational process, that majority of our job is NOT technical, rather humanistic?
Well.. not anyone (40 y/o crack heads, etc) but I do believe that we should let anyone who wants to learn to be a paramedic should. It's pretty easy in class to see if someone just wants to drive code 3 or if they actually want to help people.

I do agree that many people have entered EMS for the wrong reasons, but who are we to judge? Who are we to say that someone is in it for the wrong reason? Unless someone tells us that they just wanna drive fast than who are we really? It's an issue that my partne (business lol) are having because we want to hire more people but are having a heck of a time finding the "right" people.
 
Does it matter if someone is in it for the right reason as long as they provide adequate care to the patients?

A hypothetical:
What if I am just in EMS for the money? Should I not be working as a medic even if I am providing care as good as or better than that of my colleagues?
 
BEorP said:
Does it matter if someone is in it for the right reason as long as they provide adequate care to the patients?

A hypothetical:
What if I am just in EMS for the money? Should I not be working as a medic even if I am providing care as good as or better than that of my colleagues?
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In EMS for the money?

Impossible.
 
Ridryder911 said:
It has made me wonder, who and what we are attracting to enter the EMS profession? ...Are people entering for the right reasons? Should there be a screening process to help eliminate those that expectations are not that of the career?..
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There are nuts in every profession. Not to get political but look at some of the clear psychopaths in Washington DC. I would like to say that everyone in this field has good intentions, a clean background and a good mind however that isn't the case. As far as the news, IMHO it only appears to be "getting worse" because the world of the media is larger than it ever has been in history. Civilians are on information overload, getting stories form every field and news from every possible source.
 
BEorP said:
Does it matter if someone is in it for the right reason as long as they provide adequate care to the patients?

A hypothetical:
What if I am just in EMS for the money? Should I not be working as a medic even if I am providing care as good as or better than that of my colleagues?
Click to expand...
But you aren't in it JUST for the money.. you also want to "do right by your patients" and be a good provider.

We all need to do that.
 
It's not enough to set standards if the standards will not be enforced. There will always be those willing to pencil whip a training in order to put someone with a pulse behind the wheel of the ambulance.

No matter how high a standard we set, there will be those who will hire the ones who passed with a D on their 4th stab at it. Integrity is internal. I don't believe the desire to improve, educate and excel is something that can be mandated.

To say that higher educational standards is going to be the solution ignores the plethora of barely competent RNs that we've all seen, or the offshore med school grads that keep the personal injury lawyers in new BMWs. I think those of us who care have to set a personal standard and do what we can to ensure that those standards are met by those we hire, train and recruit.
 
I think they should require, at the very least, college anatomy and physiology to enter Basic school. At most universities, getting into A&P also requires at least a semester of college biology and chemistry.

I can see part of why they don't now. Almost a full year (or more) of science classes just to get to be an EMT-B is expensive, and to most, not worth it. But think of how committed the people who actually go through the whole program would be, and how much better EMTs they would make. Now, in Basic class, they teach you the basic musculature, skeletal system, and cardiology of the human body. Maybe more if you're lucky. And even then, you're taught to mostly memorize these parts, not how or why they work. Nobody, without a basic knowledge of A&P, could really understand why a stretching of cardiac muscle leads to CHF or how rigor mortis sets in. Does not having that knowledge affect how someone would treat a patient? Heck yes it would!

I can't comment on how bad a group of people EMS is attracting. I haven't been in the field long enough to see the very best or the very worst. Nor do I consider myself a good enough basic yet to even know. But I know I would trust an EMT who took basic courses in human anatomy, physiology, and biology WAY more in every way.
 
I don’t post here much but this is something that I have been reading with some of these posts and really couldn’t believe it. Patient contract is probably the major role of an EMT or paramedic that includes providing a shoulder to cry on or holding the hand of a scared patient, or even letting them rub your knee. I am currently halfway through my basic class which is not nearly the experience many have on this board but of the eight people in my class six probably should just quit, they either have no communication skills or a very lazy attitude, I felt terrible for getting an 89% on my last exam because I knew the questions I missed, and then come to find out that 89% was class high by a good 10 points or more. People should only pursue this career be it a basic or paramedic level if they truly have the desire to help people and put their own comfort level behind them and stand up and provide the best care to their ability. Luckily for me my instructor can see who cares and he is a big proponent of professionalism and the parts of this job that are not glamorous and its not what you see on TV. So to answer your question Rid, there absolutely should be screening, interviews, and whatever else it takes to get the right people into this profession. Just my .02
 
Hastings said:
2. EMS now being an undesired stepping stone of the Fire profession and aspiring firefighters being unhappily forced to participate in EMS when they really quite honestly aren't interested in medicine at all.
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This is huge. Some of the best paramedics I know are on the Fire side, but there's also plenty of them who have limited interest in medicine and would much prefer to work on an engine or ladder all day. This is fine, it's their interest. It's the departments which put them in a position which requires them to become paramedics or stop advancing in the department. Even in my hometown of less than 20k all firefighters are required to become paramedics within three years of hire.

I think it's a lack of education on a civic level which causes cities to consolidate EMS under the auspices of the fire service. I'd be interested to read a long term quality or performance assessment comparing an EMS only agency with a Fire/EMS service.
 
What annoys me about my EMT class is that I honestly believe there are less than 5 people who are in my class of 25 for EMS. Everyone else wants to eventually become a firefighter. There are some guys that hardly show up to class and others that are always late. It's obvious that most these people don't care about this class cause they always beg to go home early and talk in the back of the class. I really believe my level of learning could be higher if it wasn't like this. We are split into groups and I believe half the reason that my group excels more than the rest of class because half my group wants to be here for the EMS aspect, not fire.
 
daimere said:
What annoys me about my EMT class is that I honestly believe there are less than 5 people who are in my class of 25 for EMS. Everyone else wants to eventually become a firefighter. There are some guys that hardly show up to class and others that are always late. It's obvious that most these people don't care about this class cause they always beg to go home early and talk in the back of the class. I really believe my level of learning could be higher if it wasn't like this. We are split into groups and I believe half the reason that my group excels more than the rest of class because half my group wants to be here for the EMS aspect, not fire.
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Was the same for my class. 3 out of a group of 33 who were NOT aspiring firefighters. The rest had close to no interest in medicine; just doing a prerequisite.
 
SmokeyBear said:
Not to get political but look at some of the clear psychopaths in Washington DC.
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As oppossed to the murky psychpaths some may settle for?:sad:
 
Seems like...

the folks who are taking the classes only as a prerequisite for something else or who are on a firefighting path won't be working in the field anyway, so let em sit in the back and talk so long as they don't disturb the actual students.

Hell, let em sit in a separate group and chatter away, just make sure that they have to pass the same tests if they expect to pass.

As for who's attracted to EMS, what's wrong with being in it for the money? No, seriously, I'm paid very well for the job I do, my pts. seem to appreciate my efforts as do the companies who hire me and I take a great deal of enjoyment from the work. A win-win situation. The fact that I demand to make a livable wage for doing a professional job is part and parcel with doing the job itself. If people expect professional treatment, they have to pay for it.

As for enforcing educational standards, absolutely. The current efforts of the NREMT to enforce accreditation standards will improve EMS for all parties and will result in higher pay as well.

John E.
 
John E said:
the folks who are taking the classes only as a prerequisite for something else or who are on a firefighting path won't be working in the field anyway, so let em sit in the back and talk so long as they don't disturb the actual students.

Hell, let em sit in a separate group and chatter away, just make sure that they have to pass the same tests if they expect to pass.


John E.
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If only that was true! Did you read the news article about the Naples FFs? Probably 60% of our FD trucks are ALS engines and ladders with at least 2 - 4 medics on board. Unfortunately they do have access to drugs and just as unfortunate they did not take their education serious enough because the medical part was not stressed.

If the Paramedic classes are being taught in medic mills by other poorly educated Fire Medics, the class will be more poorly educated Fire Medics (or other if they happen to be in that class). Then, graduates from that class can quickly advance to training officer or class instructor to continue a downward pyramid. Since this trend started in the late 80s, those of us who were educated prior to that have been witness to this.

I don't mean to rag totally on Fire Medics but some are neither good medics or good FFs. The professional FF has just as much to worry about with a poorly trained half-arsed FF covering his/her back in a dangerous situation.

It is a good paying job in some areas when compared to other tech jobs. That is why Oakland, CA FD had 10,000 applicants for 20 FF positions. And, they did not have to be a Parmedic which was a good thing considering some of the applicants' qualifications or lack of.
 
In the large city next to me, the paramedic firefighters tend not to wear BSI or give ample C-spine to patients. One of the EMT students fractured a foot and had to have them called. She turns to her side, with her arm spewing blood and he didn't have gloves on or anything.
 
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