"We/I lost her?"

[abckidsmom]

I lost my keys once. My kids lose their pencils all the time. I can't find my favorite job shirt.

My patients? Sometimes they die. It very, very rarely has anything to do with whether I performed my job adequately. When I go to provide EMS, I expect that I'm going to perform pretty highly, that I'm not going to make any huge mistakes, and that all the high-priority tasks are going to be performed perfectly.

There is room for slight error. The incidents where we make a real difference between life and death are few and far between. I believe the real point of the job is just to do the work and make the worst day a little bit better for our patients.

All people die, it's not our fault, nor should we claim ownership of that given a standard set of circumstances. It's just not healthy to carry that weight, and it will not make a long, rewarding career...just a headache.

Now don't go killing people just because I said that.

 

[usalsfyre]

Good post, I had the same thought when I saw the other thread.

 

[MrBrown]

Brown agrees, Brown feels sorry for the unfortunate situation his patients have found themselves in but doesn't go home and destroy himself over it.

It just makes him look at Mrs Brown and be thankful.

.... it makes Mrs Brown look at Brown and go "oh god why, why me?"

 

[akflightmedic]

Nice post. I read the other thread first and was thinking on the same lines as you...good job.

I have never lost anyone but I have killed one or two in my career..

 

[Aidey]

To paraphrase from a co-worker -

"I don't lose patients, it isn't like, oops, where did they go? I know exactly where they went, they went dead".

Commented after a new person asked him if he lost the patient he was telling a story about.

 

[MrBrown]

To paraphrase from a co-worker -

"I don't lose patients, it isn't like, oops, where did they go? I know exactly where they went, they went dead".

Commented after a new person asked him if he lost the patient he was telling a story about.

Best quote ever!

 

[emt_irl]

To paraphrase from a co-worker -

"I don't lose patients, it isn't like, oops, where did they go? I know exactly where they went, they went dead".

Commented after a new person asked him if he lost the patient he was telling a story about.

that is brilliant, made my day that little bit better after reading it

 

[EMT-IT753]

Definition

Definitions of lost on the Web:

•no longer in your possession or control; unable to be found or recovered; "a lost child"; "lost friends"; "his lost book"; "lost opportunities"
•confused: having lost your bearings; confused as to time or place or personal identity; "I frequently find myself disoriented when I come up out of the subway"; "the anesthetic left her completely disoriented"
•spiritually or physically doomed or destroyed; "lost souls"; "a lost generation"; "a lost ship"; "the lost platoon"
•incapable of being recovered or regained; "his lost honor"
•not caught with the senses or the mind; "words lost in the din"
•bemused: deeply absorbed in thought; "as distant and bemused as a professor listening to the prattling of his freshman class"; "lost in thought"; "a preoccupied frown"
•baffled: perplexed by many conflicting situations or statements; filled with bewilderment; "obviously bemused by his questions"; "bewildered and confused"; "a cloudy and confounded philosopher"; "just a mixed-up kid"; "she felt lost on the first day of school"
•doomed: people who are destined to die soon; "the agony of the doomed was in his voice"
•helpless: unable to function; without help

It is all in how your perception of the word and how you use it. Many people still use the word "lost" and "dead" interchangeably. Neither are right or wrong when it comes right down to it.

 

[Aidey]

It isn't the use of the word "lost" that is the issue, it is the "I lost" in a possessive sense that is the problem.

 

[JJR512]

Definitions of lost on the Web:

•no longer in your possession or control; unable to be found or recovered; "a lost child"; "lost friends"; "his lost book"; "lost opportunities"

It isn't the use of the word "lost" that is the issue, it is the "I lost" in a possessive sense that is the problem.

Going by the first definition quoted, I can sort of see that sometimes, the possessive sense can be accurate.

If a person is going to die on their own, but may or may not die depending on what other people are able to do for that person, then it can be said that the providers hold that person's life in their hands. If the person dies, then the life is no longer in the provider's possession or control. So, from a certain point of view, when a patient who depended on a provider to survive dies, the provider did lose the patient.

To me, "I lost a patient" does not mean the same thing as "My patient died and it's my fault." All "I lost a patient" means to me is "My patient died." Period. No judgement or assignation of blame goes along with "I lost a patient" in my opinion.

Please understand that I am not saying my view or opinion is right, or another one is wrong. This just means different things to different people, that's all, and nobody is absolutely right or wrong. This is not something that needs to be argued about. If you feel that "I lost a patient" means or implies that it's your fault, therefore it's usually not appropriate for you to say it (assuming it's usually not your fault that the patient died), then by all means, don't say it. All I'm saying is that if you did say it, I wouldn't assume it's your fault. I would just assume you're saying, in different words, that a patient died while in your care.

 

[abckidsmom]

Going by the first definition quoted, I can sort of see that sometimes, the possessive sense can be accurate.

If a person is going to die on their own, but may or may not die depending on what other people are able to do for that person, then it can be said that the providers hold that person's life in their hands. If the person dies, then the life is no longer in the provider's possession or control. So, from a certain point of view, when a patient who depended on a provider to survive dies, the provider did lose the patient.

To me, "I lost a patient" does not mean the same thing as "My patient died and it's my fault." All "I lost a patient" means to me is "My patient died." Period. No judgement or assignation of blame goes along with "I lost a patient" in my opinion.

Please understand that I am not saying my view or opinion is right, or another one is wrong. This just means different things to different people, that's all, and nobody is absolutely right or wrong. This is not something that needs to be argued about. If you feel that "I lost a patient" means or implies that it's your fault, therefore it's usually not appropriate for you to say it (assuming it's usually not your fault that the patient died), then by all means, don't say it. All I'm saying is that if you did say it, I wouldn't assume it's your fault. I would just assume you're saying, in different words, that a patient died while in your care.

That's so nice and non-confrontational.

I just feel like the possessive form of the description shows that the provider is holding too tightly to the experience. In my experience, newer providers (myself included) really, really care a LOT about having a patient die in their care.

"I should have" "Maybe if we" and "if only" end up in a lot of stories that start with "I lost her."

I want to see newer providers grow beyond that if they want to stay in EMS for their career, just so that they will not be crispy, attitude-laden people in 5 years who think that they could "if only" the ignorance out of the majority of our served populations, too.

Holding too tightly to the patient's issues, whether they are death and dying issues, drug abuse or child abuse issues, or ignorance and poverty issues, leads to burnout. Unrecognized burnout leads to poor performance as a medic.

 

[JJR512]

I see your point, and I do understand it. I think I understand both sides of this, and I definitely get what you're saying. And it is a valid point.

About the "I should have", "Maybe if we", and "if only" thoughts, though, I think they do have some value, if they are considered objectively. I know you are not suggesting that if a patient dies, we just say "Oh well" then go on to the next call without another thought. I think we do need to have our own internal quality improvement process, and not just on patient death situations but maybe after every call. Just run back over it and try to figure out if we really did do the best we could have done, did we forget or miss anything, etc.

But I know the way you meant it was that we shouldn't beat ourselves up over it, don't take every patient death as if its our fault, etc. In other words don't automatically assume that if a patient dies, it's our fault. And I agree with that.

 

[firetender]

Without stomping on the OP's intent, nor wishing to throw water on the fire...

Sometimes, you look back at a call and objectively and honestly you have to say "I was an agent of that person's death!"

Screw-ups happen and yes, we DO lose people in this business; they were alive when we got there and death claimed them no matter, in spite of, or because of something we did or didn't do. That's just the high stakes we're playing with in what is ultimately, a losing game.

If you look a little deeper you can look around and see that EVERYONE and EVERYTHING around you, in their own ways contributed to that death as well -- and even the patient needs to share some of the blame. All of these factors combined only did what could be called "accelerating" the inevitable.

Sometimes, death is simply the result of all sorts of crap going wrong for a person in which everyone around is part of that movement which makes everyone an "Agent of Death."

Still, death isn't personal; that is until it hits YOU, of course!

 

[sop]

I just had a guy die yesterday. He had used the bathroom on himself, and died in the rig. I'm still going to have memories of his odor and him dying. I just say, "Next!" "We got other people to save." "Move on soldier."