**Using A Ked**

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lilbeddoe

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I am low emt on the chain of command
when i arrive for a car accident i want to use the KeD but the rest of my crew doesnt
what do you think about the KED
please respond
 
I think a lot of EMT's find them time consuming, so opt for easier methods.
I've never used one in the field myself. I guess it' s goes case by case.
I'd also be interested to know how many of our members have used them at an MVA (MVC).

Cheers Enjoynz
 
If I suspect spinal injury, Then I use it. They are not hard to use, if you know how to use them.

I found that most won't use them, because they have no clue how to!
 
Not just that, most KEDS extend above the head, which means there will be much difficulty in extricating the pt, especially if the car is not being cut up.
 
reaper said:
If I suspect spinal injury, Then I use it. They are not hard to use, if you know how to use them.

I found that most won't use them, because they have no clue how to!
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What I find interesting is so many acclaim to be good practitioners and follow treatment protocols to the letter "T". These are the same ones that always acclaim to "do basics before advanced" etc., etc... Yet, they will not use an indicated extrication device that has proven to prevent further injuries to the patient while extricating them?

I don't won't say that they do not know how to use them, almost every one practices over and over. Let' s call it as is.... L-A-Z-Y ! Would one not splint to prevent further injuries?

Let's review the National Standard Curriculum .. You know the one that is judged by in the court of law? Patients presenting cervical/thoracic injuries are to be immobilized as much as possible for removal from the auto and then placed onto a LSB.

Yes, sure there are instances the patient may not warrant. One that has been taught field clearance of C-spine and those that warrant immediate removal from the auto (spinal injuries is the least of their injuries).

When I read that of those not never or barely use extrication devices, I wonder if they respond to many MVC's or patients that never complaining of neck and thoracic pain? Something I really doubt.

R/r 911
 
your co workers are being lazy. i have been lazy. you will be lazy at some point. that doesnt make it right.

bring it up at the next squad meeting if it really bothers you. do so carefully however, silverbacks often bristle at being told how to do something they have done over and over again by the rookie. you have to tread carefully.
 
OK Rid,

I was being nice and not piss off a lot of people with the "L" word. But, since you brought it out, that is exactly why it does not get used much!

I value my Pt's and my license too much, not to use it!
 
KED good

I was sold on a KED when it was put on me.
Maybe KED has changed since 1981, but my experience was that they were the same length as a "standard" short board, acheived a much better cranial to thoracic alignment, more quickly than a short board if you do it right (keep track of your fasteners, just like a short board only easier)..you get the drift. If you want "too long" and cumbersome, try a build-a-board.
Only things a short board might offer are that you can make your own shortboard, and that you could conceivably cut the head extension shorter with a saw at the scene if needed...like, for a decap.:huh:

I think some folks might not be "lazy" per se, but, even worse, allow themselves to "ride the rush" or catch prevailing feelings of urgency from others and start to hurry past the steps for good care.
 
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On second thought...

...while the EMT and cervical immobilization/extrication were born as conjoined twins, sometimes it just isn't indicated, such as low speed of impact (and/but sometimes it IS indicated despite low speed). Use your assessment skills and know your rules regs and policies, then, when in doubt, immobilize. Watch the older heads and ask tactfully why they are used, and why not. Good way to help pick a partner, too.
 
I have used it on the one major MVA I went on. Actually the EMT-CC was going to pull the pt out of the car without it, but when I said "You want to KED her?" he took it and used it. The nature of the call was a car vs. tree with major front end damage. The KED was on her and she was out in under 7 minutes. I find it to be a great tool out there!
 
KED application....

I have also used the KED for MVA's I think what draws folks from using it, folks think that it could take too much time to apply. When you have your squad meeting it maybe you could suggest that it could be part of a monthy or bi monthy skills drill. It is hard at times being the new kid on the block but it also takes time for your partners to get to know you too. Hang in there, and keep your eyes and ears open for learning. Hope this helps! :)
 
The KED is a wonderful tool for some applications. When the pt is seated in an MVA and needs extrication, it can't be beat. If your buddies don't like to use it, my guess is because they are unfamilar with it. That means you need to drill with it more. We practice with it for time. Each time trying to beat the time before.
 
BossyCow said:
The KED is a wonderful tool for some applications. When the pt is seated in an MVA and needs extrication, it can't be beat. If your buddies don't like to use it, my guess is because they are unfamilar with it. That means you need to drill with it more. We practice with it for time. Each time trying to beat the time before.
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yeah, cause that who i want working on me. the nascar pit crew of ems.

wouldnt it be a better idea to drill for perfection rather than time? so take a state skill sheet and see how many points you can get. then next time, try to get more points
 
The Golden hour and Platinum 10 has been proved as a myth by trauma surgeons. Another thing that just keeps getting taught in schools, with no research behind it!
 
And the research for that would be found where?
 
KEVD18 said:
yeah, cause that who i want working on me. the nascar pit crew of ems.

wouldnt it be a better idea to drill for perfection rather than time? so take a state skill sheet and see how many points you can get. then next time, try to get more points
Click to expand...

I don't see perfection and time as mutually exclusive. Drilling for time doesn't mean that I ignore the perfection of skills. The intent of the drill is to see how quickly we can get a perfect score and then try to do it faster.

The competition between teams trying to get their 'pt' packaged with the highest points in the least amount of time creates team building, a sense of fun and a drive to do the task well. As I said in the post, its a drill, not our main objective while on actual scenes.
 
BLSBoy said:
Not just that, most KEDS extend above the head, which means there will be much difficulty in extricating the pt, especially if the car is not being cut up.
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MVC rule #1 The car should ALWAYS be cut up. No matter what condition it is in. Heh, heh, heh, heh....

Ok, just kidding.

I dont like how the backbord gets stuck on the KED under the Pt's rear end when they are sitting in the car.
 
Whether or not I would go for a KED depends entirely on the situation. They can take a while and be intimidating at first (so newbies like me may hesitate to use them :P), but with practice, they're just another (very effective) tool in the arsenal.

Instead of approaching them about it infront of a group, maybe it'll be more effective to approach them about it after the next call while still alone with them in the truck as an innocent post-call question ("could a KED have been used back there?"). That way it doesn't seem as much a challenge to their knowledge/experience as a suggestion to better patient care.
 
reaper said:
The Golden hour and Platinum 10 has been proved as a myth by trauma surgeons. Another thing that just keeps getting taught in schools, with no research behind it!
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While that may be true (I don't know) they are still guidelines for on-scene time and total time before reaching a hospital.

I have seen before where the reasoning behind a lesson was not actually true, but the lesson itself was still very important. I'm thinking this may be one of those situations.
 
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