Unconscious choking

[ResueThis]

I looked, couldn't find.

I am trying to figure the reasoning for in the event a conscious person becomes unconscious due to choking, we are to perform CPR.

Why not continue with abdominal thrust on the ground? It's my understanding we are only to perform CPR on a person with no pulse.

Performing chest compressions doesn't seem like it would be as effective forcing the object out the airway as abdominal thrust would.

Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[DesertMedic66]

For ab thrusts you go at an upward angle. When the patient is on the ground it is hard to go at an upward angle so chest compressions are used.

When your patient is pregnant or overweight you place your hands on their chest as a modified chest thrust. It still forces air out to hopefully expel the object.

 

[mycrofft]

AHA and ARC do not teach prone abd thrusts for pro or layperson CPR anymore. The rationale they cite is that "there's enough oxygen in the blood for a while, but it is wasted without circulation" (if it isn't being reoxygenated and the CO2 bled off in the lungs, can't see where it helps much other than preserving a circ system to put an IV into).

Apparently, the supine abd thrusts were not very effective. I'd say an EFFECTIVELY DEEP CPR compression is pretty close to a back blow, or more, but your patient is supine so the obstructor is likely to drop back into place.

Once the pt goes down, if hands only CPR is elected, no way to know if there is an obstruction.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Performing chest compressions doesn't seem like it would be as effective forcing the object out the airway as abdominal thrust would.

Chest compressions are going to increase intrathoracic pressure. Increased intrathoracic pressure compresses the lungs and forces any gas inn them out the only way they can go, which is up, hopefully relieving the obstruction. Gases go from high to low pressure, right?

How it was explained to me and with my basic understanding of gas laws it makes sense.

I don't understand the circulation argument, they are spontaneously circulating blood, unless their pressure is crap, but at that point you're probably going to be doing real CPR and the ALS guys are going to be breaking into their 'toys' if they haven't already.(read: direct laryngoscopy, McGill forceps and worst case a scalpel, dilator and 6.0 ETT)

 

[mycrofft]

Chest compressions are going to increase intrathoracic pressure. Increased intrathoracic pressure compresses the lungs and forces any gas inn them out the only way they can go, which is up, hopefully relieving the obstruction. Gases go from high to low pressure, right?

How it was explained to me and with my basic understanding of gas laws it makes sense.

I don't understand the circulation argument, they are spontaneously circulating blood, unless their pressure is crap, but at that point you're probably going to be doing real CPR and the ALS guys are going to be breaking into their 'toys' if they haven't already.(read: direct laryngoscopy, McGill forceps and worst case a scalpel, dilator and 6.0 ETT)

Even if there is initial airway embarrassment without cardiac etiology, the heart will shut off pretty son, too. That's a fairly narrow time window. AND, there is only "real CPR", do not accept cheap imitations.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Even if there is initial airway embarrassment without cardiac etiology, the heart will shut off pretty son, too. That's a fairly narrow time window. AND, there is only "real CPR", do not accept cheap imitations.

Very true.

:rofl: Definitely no cheap imitations. Re-read that, probably could have worded it better.