Touchy question re: crass jokes

Sassafras

Sassafras

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I hope I worded it right. I understand EMS is a league of its own with its own set of rules. I get crass jokes are a part of the self debriefing we do at times and honestly appreciate the opportunity to let the inner 13 year old out. Most of the time I find a dirty joke quite funny, however, sometimes I have felt entirely uncomfortable with some of the comments of fellow people who I run with and am not sure where or when the line should be drawn. (Is this question even making sense?)

Let me preface by saying at no time have I ever worked with someone who dropped the jokes in front of a patient, that this dialogue normally takes place during down time at the station, but not sure how to broach things when I feel the joking goes too far or if I'm simply being a little more prudish than the rest. Insights? Discussion? STFU are welcome too.
 
If someone doesn't like my sense of humor, they can deal with it or ignore it.


If you don't like the style of jokes going on, and it's not being universally offensive, then leave.
 
My response is a question.

Have you worked in other jobs, other career fields?

Can you say without a doubt that crass jokes do not take place in their downtime as well?
 
If you are just being vulgar or somewhat blanketly offensive then that is different.

If you are however just being a good sport with a well developed sense of humour then thats fine.

BTW WTF is a Sassafras :D

Sounds like some sort of snack or car wax
 
Yes I have worked in other fields. And I am taking the "ignore what I don't like" stance. The level of leudness within both units I'm with is overwhelming next to what I've been exposed to from restaraunt work to mental health and corporate america. Some is to be expected, and again, I get a kick out of most of it. I came into the field knowing the jokes that EMS really stands for Extra Marital Sex, and I expected things to be a bit more (which is saying a lot given the other jobs I've worked in the past), I'm just struggeling with when it crosses that imaginary line into sexual harassment I suppose, and when it becomes *too much*.
 
MrBrown said:
BTW WTF is a Sassafras :D

Sounds like some sort of snack or car wax
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It's a tree LOL. I always swore I'd name a cat that if I ever got another LOL. It sounds like a cat name to me. But was the first thing that came to mind when I put in a screen name since I wanted a little more annonymity here since I have asked job related questions before. But its leaves smell like lemon and I'm told kids chew on fresh cut twigs because they taste like speramint. Beats me, I don't chew. :P
 
Sexual offense to such behavior is an all or none game. If you participate in it or allow it, it isn't "sexual harrassment," unfortunately some people always have to see how far they can take it. If the behavior goes too far, you have to state your boundaries... Most people will feel a social awkwardness to continue after you state your discomfort. Or you can remove yourself from the situation. Good luck.



P.s.
Thats what she said...( I promise I learned it from the office)
 
Generally, i observed we in EMS tended to give each other a lot of leeway when it came to making cracks. Often, comments would cross the line of individual's sensitivities, and usually no one would say a thing.

But sometimes, I think people ought to be told they crossed your personal line and you can register complaint without getting sucked in to a confrontation. In that NO ONE wins.

For example, if a co-worker tells tall tales about another that are abusive or paint a negative picture of him/her for any reason, something like "Gotta go now; I won't get involved in stuff about others unless they are there to defend themselves. If someone talked about you in this way, I'd want to hear your voice." is an honest statement of YOUR limits and boundaries without attacking anyone.
 
You're entitled to draw a line between attempts at humor, and statements directed at you that are personally offensive or insulting. If the latter occurs, you might need to comment about that, privately, to the person responsible.
 
Sassafras said:
.... Most of the time I find a dirty joke quite funny, however, sometimes I have felt entirely uncomfortable with some of the comments of fellow people who I run with and am not sure where or when the line should be drawn. (Is this question even making sense?)
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I have been taking workplace harrassment training for close to 20 years. The key words that you used were "I felt uncomfortable". That is the standard that is still used in my office to identify behavior that needs to be addressed by management. That is when the line is crossed. It doesn't matter if you say "it was just a joke" or "he/she is too sensitive". This is the point that management MUST step in.

Can it go too far? sure. An employee with a swimsuit calendar on their desk and another employee possibly a bit more conservative than the first doesn't like it. The employee says "that calendar makes me uncomfortable" and in all likelihood a proper manager would tell the first employee to get rid of it.

We have a pretty nice gym area at our service. When I started there and was getting a tour with the general manager I made a comment about a few swimsuit muscle building posters on the walls (all female swimsuits). I said that absolutely would NEVER be allowed at my workplace (the DoD). He agreed and took them down on the spot.
 
Thus far I've just been avoiding being alone with the individuals as much as possible. I seem to have no problem piping up when it comes to joking that is discriminatory or predjudiced in nature (not to management but a simple dude that wasn't really cool sort of thing), but the sexual comments I haven't figured out how to deal with without sounding like a prude, since most of it is quite funny. My personal discomfort comes with statements and jokes about what *I* should do with that person and then I become befuddled verbally and pull away from the conversation. It takes a lot for me to blush, but his is what gets me, so I've simply taken to only participating in public conversation with certain individuals. I guess I wanted the input of others to guage if I was handeling things o.k. without doing the whole run to management thing.
 
CTTC (cut to the chase)

1. If it interferes with your working, you have a right to work, it is not part of the job, bring it up with your peers and if that doesn't resolve it, with your boss. START DOCUMENTING NOW, a diary or dayrunner.
2. We use "black humor" (well, that sounds discriminatory right there, dang me) as a means of reminding ourselves we are OK by establishing "they" are not. It's an easy target for legalists.
3. Sexual humor can be of the same variety, but it denigrates a gender or practice. Unless gender or sexual practices are part of the job description, it is not protected. If you let it go on, the next person will have it that much harder to change.

If your co-workers respect and value one another, if one says she/he is being made uncomfotable in the workplace by something the co-workers are doing, they will stop it.

Watch for the bullies who start with the "too sensitive" or "just like a ...." reply (fill in the blank.."woman", "homo", religious member, ethnic American) , then want silence and compliance.

PS: Sassafras is what puts the "root" in rootbeer and sassafrass tea. Looks sort of like a mulberry tree. Unfortunately, sassafrass oil is carcinogenic.
 
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The importent thing is if you dont like it, then do not select what is ok or not.

Dont ever make a dirty joke yourself if one they say will offend you.

It is all or nothing.
 
Sassafras said:
It's a tree LOL. I always swore I'd name a cat that if I ever got another LOL. It sounds like a cat name to me. But was the first thing that came to mind when I put in a screen name since I wanted a little more annonymity here since I have asked job related questions before. But its leaves smell like lemon and I'm told kids chew on fresh cut twigs because they taste like speramint. Beats me, I don't chew. :P
Click to expand...

It is also the source of the essential oil, "Safrole" which is a direct precursor to MDMA (Molly, Ecstacy). I would be lying if I said I hadn't wondered myself if that was the reason for the name.. lol.
 
I would say that if the joke or comment involves you somehow, and it makes you uncomfortable, then it has definitely crossed into the sexual harassment category.

Personally, my opinion is that you should say something to them first. Like "Ok guys, enough. If you want to be pigs fine, but leave me out of it or I'm going to talk to the supervisor." If that works, good. If not, then it is time to go to management.

One thing I've learned from watching these incidents is that unless something is WAY over the top (like someone grabs your butt) you need to warn the people first, because then they can't claim they had no idea it was making you uncomfortable.

You've already said that you feel uncomfortable, and you are having to avoid people on a regular basis because of it. That tells me things have gone more than far enough and you need to say something to them, and then management if it doesn't stop.

I also don't buy into the "if you don't like it leave" or "all or nothing" attitudes. It is your workplace, and you are expected to be able to function there without being uncomfortable. Frankly, "all or nothing" is crap. If you follow that then everyone ends up having to abide by the feelings of the most conservative person there. Everyone should be able to take place in the humor and discussions they are comfortable with. The key is being able to say "hey guys, over the line" and compromising with people.

We have a very conservative employee where I worked, and if we were forced to follow all of the 'rules' that are the norm in his religion all the women would have their hair covered, be wearing skirts, and so on. Should we have to do that to make him comfortable? No. Like I said, it is about compromise.
 
Aidey said:
We have a very conservative employee where I worked, and if we were forced to follow all of the 'rules' that are the norm in his religion all the women would have their hair covered, be wearing skirts, and so on. Should we have to do that to make him comfortable? No. Like I said, it is about compromise.
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See that right there I feel is offensive and degrading toward women, but I'd never insist someone put aside their religious beliefs, again as long as it isn't directed at me. Asking me flat out to have sex with you in the on call room...again...crossing my personal boundaries even if it was in jest. And because it was said when we were alone, I tend to avoid being alone with said individual. I figure if the jokes are public then everyone hears and I can normally turn it around into something not as personal. I'm pretty quick with my wit normally. Like I said it takes a lot to get me to say "whoah" but I guess I've gotten there.
 
Thus far I've just been avoiding being alone with the individuals as much as possible.
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The fact you have typed that line indicates a serious problem.

In my day job none of this behavior would fly. It would not fly on any of my shifts either.

Work is where you are a professional. This notion that because it is EMS you are allowed to be crass, unprofessional and crude is probably why the pay is low, the education is minimal and the industry is looked down upon. The people you work with, and the people who think this is acceptable need to grow up.

Maybe you can be the one to make a difference in your service.
 
You haven't hung around many ER staff have you!
 
reaper said:
You haven't hung around many ER staff have you!
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Lol, very True! I also encourage one to look up the mnemonics available for the memorization of the cranial nerves (warning, they contain adult content).
 
reaper said:
You haven't hung around many ER staff have you!
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LOL...not unless you are counting a trauma I'm delivering to their hospital. Again, jests like that in public are a bit different than alone though, to me at least. I guess I felt there was a hint of seriousness to the joke and my "creep radar" started beeping.
 
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