The new CPR

[Chimpie]

Okay, so we've seen on here the new CPR, which basically is nothing but compressions. Over at the Firehouse.com forums (sorry Matt, I had to leave for a few minutes) they were talking about it and they said that while compressions are being started to slide in an oral airway and hook up a NRB @ 15l and continue doing compressions. My question is:

When does bagging start? Does EMS bag at all?

Firehouse.com Forum: The new CPR w/ protocol

 

[rescuemedic7306]

The stuff I read, said no breaths at all as the compressions done at that rate have the same effect as pumping the lungs...all these years and well, go figure...

http://www.callandpump.org/

 

[Chimpie]

So are you reading this as I am: That the chest compressions also collapse the lungs enough to exhale CO2 and the NRB is pushing enough air in to support adequate O2 levels? Or am I misreading this?

 

[rescuecpt]

I skimmed the protocols, i'm thinking if you have 2 rescuers one will be breathing, but alone i guess not. We'll see what a couple years of research have to say on this, i guess.

 

[Chimpie]

Looking at one depts protocols here it seems that even EMS still gives compressions and three shocks before ventilating.

 

[TTLWHKR]

As an American Red Cross Instructor... "The New CPR"; is for the public only. They (who ever makes the decisions) think that it is a crude concept to walk up to a man on the street and put your mouth to his.

Therefore they feel that there is enough air transfer just by doing compressions, and suggest that we teach the public how to do conventional CPR, but suggest that they open the airway, check for breathing, check for pulse, call for help, and then begin compressions. No breaths, unless that are familiar with the patient. The policy for Family CPR, i.e. infants and children; will not change.

In any case, just following your local protocols should clear up the question on how you, as EMS professionals, should handle "The New CPR".

 

[Chimpie]

Is the ARC actually teaching that now? No breaths?

Is this written down anywhere? Links? Email you can send me?

 

[TTLWHKR]

Originally posted by Chimpie@May 7 2005, 02:40 PM
Is the ARC actually teaching that now? No breaths?

Is this written down anywhere? Links? Email you can send me?

Guess it all depends on who is instructing it. I teach it the conventional way; and tell them it's a personal choice weather to do breaths or not. We were told three years ago that CPR had changed. Don't know if there is a website about it, but knock yourself out.

redcross.org

 

[SafetyPro2]

Originally posted by Chimpie@May 7 2005, 12:40 PM
Is the ARC actually teaching that now? No breaths?

Is this written down anywhere? Links? Email you can send me?

The course material still promotes performing both breaths and compressions, but it also includes a statement that if you're uncomfortable doing mouth-to-mouth (particularly if you don't have a mask/barrier) that you should still do at least compressions because its better than doing nothing.

Not sure of anything on-line, but its in most of the manuals for the lay rescuer level. Don't think it says anything along those lines for professional rescuer though because they assume that an EMS person will have, at a minimum, a mask (if not a BVM).

 

[Strike3]

I still prefer our CPR here....

Autopulse and ET tube..

 

[emtchicky156]

Here in rock and walworth countys in wiconsin we are practicing the "call and pump" cpr method chest compressions at a rate of 100 per min. I cant remember the exact protcols but like it has been said the lay person doesnt need to do breaths. There are some good survival rates from it. Standard cpr is still to be used on children drowning and choking victiums and people in respitory distress.

 

[KEVD18]

dispatchers chime in here if i'm wrong, but i was once told that if you call 9-1-1 and need direction on how to do cpr, they juts guide you through the assesment and start on compressions. no vents

when i teach bcls, i inform my students that it is their choice whether or not they perform ventilations w/o a barrier device and should they decide not to, that compression only cpr is just as effective in the first 2-3 minutes as normal cpr. this is due to the fact that, prior to arrest, the pt was circulating and had a good supply of o2 rich blood. true, as circulation continues w/o oxygenation that o2 sat decreases, but its still there and effective

one of the docs i teach with occasionally has chaired the aha twice and quoted the study that i got the info from. i'll see if i can dig it up

 

[MedicPrincess]

I am not a dispatcher, but I have done numerous "observation" times at the dispatch. Around here, they will guide you through both compressions and vents. However, if the caller refuses to do the vents, they will then guide them trough compressions only. NOW, I have listened in on a couple calls where the caller refused to do CPR - peroid- compressions or vents.

 

[Margaritaville]

At my last instructors recert, all I remember hearing was

"New CPR style - Faster, Harder, Deeper". Anything that was stated after that lost me!

Damm - my mind went right to the gutter!!!!!!!! LOL (but it sounded like fun)

 

[Jon]

Originally posted by Strike3@May 9 2005, 06:48 AM
I still prefer our CPR here....

Autopulse and ET tube..

sounds nice - wish we could do that....

jon

 

[rescuecpt]

Ours is similar, but it's:

probie and ET tube...

 

[Chimpie]

Originally posted by rescuecpt@May 10 2005, 12:40 PM
Ours is similar, but it's:

probie and ET tube...

 

[Jon]

Originally posted by rescuecpt@May 10 2005, 02:40 PM
Ours is similar, but it's:

probie and ET tube...

:lol:

 

[Phridae]

Originally posted by emtchicky156@May 9 2005, 07:45 AM
Here in rock and walworth countys in wiconsin we are practicing the "call and pump" cpr method chest compressions at a rate of 100 per min. I cant remember the exact protcols but like it has been said the lay person doesnt need to do breaths. There are some good survival rates from it. Standard cpr is still to be used on children drowning and choking victiums and people in respitory distress.

Right Right Right.

Apparently theres enough O2 in the blood that breathing isnt a necessity right away. Its been proven that stopping compressions to to breath for someone isnt good either. Yes, breathing is good but that can wait.

Call and Pump

 

[Jon]

Originally posted by Phridae+May 10 2005, 06:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Phridae @ May 10 2005, 06:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-emtchicky156@May 9 2005, 07:45 AM
Here in rock and walworth countys in wiconsin we are practicing the "call and pump" cpr method chest compressions at a rate of 100 per min. I cant remember the exact protcols but like it has been said the lay person doesnt need to do breaths. There are some good survival rates from it. Standard cpr is still to be used on children drowning and choking victiums and people in respitory distress.

Right Right Right.

Apparently theres enough O2 in the blood that breathing isnt a necessity right away. Its been proven that stopping compressions to to breath for someone isnt good either. Yes, breathing is good but that can wait.

Call and Pump [/b][/quote]
Part of it is that there is still O2 in the lungs to exchange out C02 for a little while.

Also, the longer you continously do CPR witohut pausing, the more effictive it becomes... that's why it is 15:2 for 2-person now, not 5:1


jon