The French

[Hockey]

[YOUTUBE]uNR_6UuVl4s[/YOUTUBE]


Works pretty decent over there. I don't see it working here however.

 

[oneluv79]

Pretty interesting stuff...but it could never work here....

oneluv79

 

[enjoynz]

And????
Sounds like our Health care here in New Zealand.
Not sure what tourists pay, but that's what travel insurance is for.

To have a C -section here or any maternal care for that matter, is free to the patient, unless you go to a private hospital.
And quite frankly, apart from the food and maybe a private room, the level of care is the same as that offered in all hosiptals here.
Cost of a visit to the doctor's for most that cannot afford it, is approxiately the same as in France.

C'est la vie!
Cheers Enjoynz

 

[Scout]

its about them same here.

Save the doc on an ambulance but one if availbe in large areas of the country to respond, we have an out of hours doc service that will go to your house.

Its €100 to go to hospital and healt care is in the large free unless you opt for the private option, which most do, but most of us have health insurance.

I do belief that this sort fo ambuance responce is what Vent, Ris and co are looking to move towords

 

[Hockey]

You shouldn't be capped on how much you can make in a position. $50-100k a year for salary? That would cover your med school costs

 

[Scott33]

You shouldn't be capped on how much you can make in a position. $50-100k a year for salary? That would cover your med school costs

What med school costs?

Education is free in these countries, and entry to university is based primarily upon high school grades (A-Levels in the UK as well as UCAS points) personal statements, other relevant vocational qualifications, and experience etc - not how much Daddy has in his wallet. Obviously some universities are more selective (and perhaps elitist) than others. There are also private institutions which will be more in line with the US model (just like with the private / public healthcare options available) but are less common.

Some countries even pay for students to attend university, in the form of a monthly bursary to help with costs of books, travel, etc. This is dependent on personal circumstances and does not need to be payed back, unlike a student loan.

http://www.shef.ac.uk/bursaries/examples.html

 

[SanDiegoEmt7]

You shouldn't be capped on how much you can make in a position. $50-100k a year for salary? That would cover your med school costs

Might cover ONE year of med school (in the US). After getting a bachelors which can also cost 35k-180k.

 

[Melclin]

You shouldn't be capped on how much you can make in a position. $50-100k a year for salary? That would cover your med school costs

Hehe what costs? Its already been said, I know, but I thought I'd add to the mix. Down under we get a no-interest student loan off the government that we pay back in our own time, or once we are making enough to pay it back. Degree's are also alot cheaper and more importantly, they are the same price at every university. The thing that decides whether or not u go to an Ivy league equivalent is not money, its your grades.

 

[minneola24]

Wow, you call the emergency number in France and you speak to a doctor? That must be extremely expensive to run but saves alot of money in the long time. And within an hour a doctor can show up at your home, thats amazing.

I really like that idea but have no idea how it would work in the United States.

 

[MMiz]

Did anyone catch one of the last facts... the French system is running a $14 billion dollar deficit.

 

[tterrag]

Not to sure i like this idea, defeats the purpose of capitalism and the main reason myself and other EMT friends are pursuing this career, which is to start making great money and benefits as a fire-medic. I would not go through all this to get what my country decides is "reasonable pay".

 

[BHammond1]

Not to sure i like this idea, defeats the purpose of capitalism and the main reason myself and other EMT friends are pursuing this career, which is to start making great money and benefits as a fire-medic. I would not go through all this to get what my country decides is "reasonable pay".

Not to help people? Not for any adrenaline rush you might get when the bells ring? I don't want to sound bullish but you might want to re-evaluate your reasons for getting into the profession. With that said, I'm entering into the field myself, but I'm not expecting "great money"; everything that I've heard notes that medics and firefighters get paid way less than their job is worth.

 

[Melclin]

Originally Posted by tterrag View Post
Not to sure i like this idea, defeats the purpose of capitalism and the main reason myself and other EMT friends are pursuing this career, which is to start making great money and benefits as a fire-medic. I would not go through all this to get what my country decides is "reasonable pay".

It doesn't derail capitalism to have some sort of socialized medicine. It just makes it more palatable. Pure capitalism is a pretty nasty beast - you need some kind of system to balance the various horrible life destroying inequalities while leaving just enough to motivate people to achieve better lives.

The most important point we learn't in Health-101 and they mentioned it in the video too, is that despite they fact the America provides the worst health care of all the developed nations, they pay the most per capita for it. It costs more to fix a big problem than it does to stop a problem before it happens. Seeing a doctor here is cheap, so everyone does it, and many more problems get detected earlier on. Its more humane and ultimately cheaper - how is this not a no brainer? My lecturers used to talk about how the almost the entire world agreed at health conferences that equity should be the central tenet of any health system - except the Americans. They always argued for opportunity. I found that to be simultaneously very telling yet confusing.

I might add too, that the benefits that you talked about working are worse in the US than they are in most other developed nations. Americans policy makers seem yet to have discovered the value of a large, happy, healthy and productive middle class (as long as you can have a few extra Donald Trumps it doesn't matter that a few more million perfectly hard working people suffer easily preventable poverty).

 

[bstone]

Did anyone catch one of the last facts... the French system is running a $14 billion dollar deficit.

Yeah, their debt is a LOT less than America's medical deficit.

 

[Summit]

You shouldn't be capped on how much you can make in a position. $50-100k a year for salary? That would cover your med school costs

Even with school covered, there's a lot of people who would look and say, "do I really want to go through 12 years of post secondary education to have a high stress job that pays 50K?" Yes, some still will for the passion, but you WILL lose many of the best and brightest. I sure as :censored::censored::censored::censored: wouldn't do it for 50K/yr.

Wow, you call the emergency number in France and you speak to a doctor? That must be extremely expensive to run but saves alot of money in the long time.

I really like that idea but have no idea how it would work in the United States.

MD: "After evaluating your issue, please see a doctor within the next week."

PT: "WHAT? WHERES MY AMBULANCE? I TOLD YOU I HAVE A GOD DAMNED RUNNY NOSE! I COULD *DIE*! SEND ME MY AMBULANCE *NOW*!!!!!!!!11111!!!"

MD: "After evaluating your issue, please see a doctor within the next week. Good night!" *click* *flags number in the system*

PT: *tries another call, then calls an ambulance chasing lawyer to sue*

Originally Posted by tterrag View Post
Not to sure i like this idea, defeats the purpose of capitalism and the main reason myself and other EMT friends are pursuing this career, which is to start making great money and benefits as a fire-medic. I would not go through all this to get what my country decides is "reasonable pay".

WHAT... THE... F*CK??????????????????????????????? Do you even hear yourself?

FIRE MEDICS ARE PUBLIC SERVANTS FUNDED WITH PUBLIC MONEY! That profession has jack diddly squirts to do with capitalism except that they still bill at the market rate despite being publicly funded.

Oh... jeez... you seriously just made my head hurt.

CAPITALISM is why US MDs make $50-$500/hr. Socialism is why French MDs make $25-$50/hr.

CAPITALISM is why EMTs make $8/hr and paramedics $13/hr in private service. SOCIALISM is why a fire services pay up to 3X that much.

Funny how that works, huh? -_-

 

[Hockey]

So Summit, you actually believe the Government should limit how much you make (Just like oil companies and such)?

 

[Summit]

So Summit, you actually believe the Government should limit how much you make (Just like oil companies and such)?

You are a freaking blind nut. Show me where I said that. Did you even read my post? CLEARLY NOT.

You can't get any more capitalist than this:

Even with school covered, there's a lot of people who would look and say, "do I really want to go through 12 years of post secondary education to have a high stress job that pays 50K?" Yes, some still will for the passion, but you WILL lose many of the best and brightest. I sure as :censored::censored::censored::censored: wouldn't do it for 50K/yr.

Don't get all butthurt because I'm calling out someone who is decrying French socialism in one sentence while imagining American socialism is actually capitalism the next.

If you think I was implying that capitalism doesn't pay EMTs enough, well it it is only because the supply is so high because anyone with a middle school education can pass an EMT class in two months and there are more than enough willing to be destitute because of the passion... at least for a year or two.

 

[JPINFV]

TANSTAAFL

On an aside, can anyone compare the level of medical research being done in France vs the US?

 

[Melclin]

TANSTAAFL

On an aside, can anyone compare the level of medical research being done in France vs the US?

Interesting point. Still you couldn't say "Well there's more research being done in the US so the US system is better". It's more complicated than that. I'd love to know though how it stacks up though.

Everyone:

It's worth keeping in mind that every country is different in their living costs, social support networks and so on. You can't really just say "well they're earning 50,000 a year and that's the same as earning 50 grand a year here, so they suck". The whole ethos is different in America. Many professions get paid more and taxed less with the understanding that you have to pay for everything yourself. Here and in many other developed nations, they get paid less because many of the things that Americans assume they will have to pay for themselves are paid for by the state here (aside from the issue of a more equitable distribution of wealth). Health being a good example. Retirement funding another. Insurance premiums for doctors are lower, costs of living are lower. Education is cheaper. There are many differences that make a simple numerical comparison almost useless.

Also don't take the 100,000 cap to literally. There are probably a number of different qualifying factors to that. It's probably a public system salary for one. Their is a co-existing private system, in which people can pay for more options and better care if they wish and doctors have the option of working in this system to make more money. As I understand it, it is a similar deal in France.