Tactical medic protocols?

[mycrofft]

FF-EMT Diver, good! You have some "on the ball" folks there.

Speaking nationally, though, SWAT is often like other law enforcement programs to assuage the civilians and the hotdog administrators. Our local PD has a SWAT, but also each officer is trained and has the armor, and sometimes the weapon (usually an AR-15 or equiv) is in the trunk. Response time is low, and often the situation is over before the stack in their tank has to actually set up shop.

The "active area" is an interesting concept also, being a function of policy minus political and financial realities.

Not to say if I were the one "pinned down" in a firefight, that I would decline tactical care !! But how often are people really "pinned down"?

IS there a national assocition of tactical medics, is it medically or paramilitarily oriented, and do they set standards?

 

[FF-EMT Diver]

I must say I agree with you there.

Very rare are the " pinned Down" occasions.

Not really as far a a National organization for Medics.
For all Tac officers it is http://ntoa.org/site/

And the guidelines that most everyone goes by are the TCCC material.http://www.naemt.org/Libraries/PHTLS%20TCCC/TCCC%20Guidelines%20091104.sflb

I will also point out that if you google National Association of Tactical Medics you will find a website to a training organization in Ga. I have been to their class and they do have a good class but they are NOT a national authority on tactical medicine.

 

[MrBrown]

We have the Specalist Emergency Response Team (SERT) made up of selected Intensive Care Paramedics.

Thier role is to go to strange incidents like high angle rescue or help the Fire Service extricate people who have gotten stuck some place. They also support the Police Armed Offenders Squad and Special Tactics Group as well as the New Zealand Special Air Service (our elite tier 1 special forces).

... and they get to dress in Green Nomex and repel out of helicopters B)

 

[LondonMedic]

I don't get it. I can appreciate that as a European I don't work in a country where I'm likely to encounter an armed, hostage-taking national supremacist twice a week - these are maybe once in a career events.

However, I do not understand how it can be cost-effective for every other township or county to have a SWAT team replete with tactical medics (+/- their own weapons) on standby in such a way that they can be used safely and in a timely manner.

What training to EMTs need other than to remain behind something solid (or a police officer) until the rounds stop flying? Lots of people on this forum discuss scene safety - why does it suddenly change here?

We're used to the concept of the expectant triage category, why does that not apply?

 

[MrBrown]

I don't get it. I can appreciate that as a European I don't work in a country where I'm likely to encounter an armed, hostage-taking national supremacist twice a week - these are maybe once in a career events.

The following spring to mind

1993 Bishopgate Bomb
Paddington Rail Crash
7/7

We have SERT for things like this (not just Police AOS/STG support) in that they are "specialist" emergencies which need out of the ordinary logistical and medical support by people who support the Fire Service get people out from underneath trains or down from buildings or things like that.

They can also support the Police Armed Offenders Squad or the SAS if need be, which is a growing percentage of thier work.

SERT are however, not just for that purpose.

Does the LAS not have some sort of capacity to provide specialist medical support to weird incidents?

Then again, the UK Police are unarmed, but then again ... ours are supposed to be too!

.... and since WHEN is the UK part of Europe? I thought you guys had detatched out of embarrasment and just sit there doing your thing and let the Contentialers do thier thing

 

[LondonMedic]

The following spring to mind

1993 Bishopgate Bomb
Paddington Rail Crash
7/7

I would have let you have Dunblaine.

From what I understand, the three incidents you give examples of aren't a speciality of most US tactical medics (and they're almost once in a career events - although I know one man who went to two of them).

Does the LAS not have some sort of capacity to provide specialist medical support to weird incidents?

It does as it happens; http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/calling_999/who_will_treat_you/hart.aspx
I'm not overly convinced.

.... and since WHEN is the UK part of Europe? I thought you guys had detatched out of embarrasment and just sit there doing your thing and let the Contentialers do thier thing

I was only using Europe as an example of a part of the world which isn't full of meth fuelled, gun owning, mentalists.

 

[mycrofft]

No, but you have had and will have more "martyrdom heroes" as time goes on.

(That's Al Jazeerah talk for sucide bombers).
It would be instructive to see the British and other European portocols to compare with ours.

I just thought of a scene where special training and equipment could be of use...post-explosion incidents where secondary "devices", unstable environment, possible fire, possible UXO (unexploded ordinance), and trigger happy troops are all involved.

 

[LondonMedic]

(That's Al Jazeerah talk for sucide bombers).
It would be instructive to see the British and other European portocols to compare with ours.

I just thought of a scene where special training and equipment could be of use...post-explosion incidents where secondary "devices", unstable environment, possible fire, possible UXO (unexploded ordinance), and trigger happy troops are all involved.

And only one or two victims?

Or do we need to send the entire department to this reputable looking company.

 

[matt202]

I really think that before you start deciding on what the skill set should be with regard to the police tactical teams and whether or not there is a need for any thing more than basic first aid you should look at the average time delay from injury to hands on by the ambulance service.

In the UK there has been a number of documented cases, most recently in Cumbria, where is has been more than two hours.

If I were shot it would be nice to get some sort of pain relief in that time frame.

 

[Melclin]

If I were shot it would be nice to get some sort of pain relief in that time frame.

Hahaha, pain relief? In American EMS? :blink:


Welcome to the forum

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Unless you live in the sticks there are serious crimes everyday. I live in a city of only 1 million(including the metro area) in a city with a fairly low crime rate and we use are SERT teams on a fairly regular basis. Our SERT medics are on call and also work full time as Paramedics for the fire department, but every city has a different system. Some city's like Detroit have a full time SWAT team.
A wounded suspect recently died in Portland because SERT was not called earlier... No one could enter the hot zone and the suspect bled to death waiting for a tactical medic to arrive for 45 minutes.

The teams are not just used for hostage situations.... there also used for barricaded armed suspects, suicidal armed suspects, and even a lot for drug raids.
Saying they do not need a medic is kind of silly ,like saying the army does not need infantry line medics.

 

[Shishkabob]

I don't get it. I can appreciate that as a European I don't work in a country where I'm likely to encounter an armed, hostage-taking national supremacist twice a week - these are maybe once in a career events.

And I as an American can appreciate that I have rights that Europeans do not have.



We win.






Anyhow, Dallas PD actually has Tactical Physicians, and already have atleast one save credited to them. Granted they did the same things a Paramedic could, but still BA none-the-less.

http://www.tacticalmedicine.com/files/webarticle4.pdf

 

[matt202]

Unless you live in the sticks there are serious crimes everyday. I live in a city of only 1 million(including the metro area) in a city with a fairly low crime rate and we use are SERT teams on a fairly regular basis. Our SERT medics are on call and also work full time as Paramedics for the fire department, but every city has a different system. Some city's like Detroit have a full time SWAT team.
A wounded suspect recently died in Portland because SERT was not called earlier... No one could enter the hot zone and the suspect bled to death waiting for a tactical medic to arrive for 45 minutes.

The teams are not just used for hostage situations.... there also used for barricaded armed suspects, suicidal armed suspects, and even a lot for drug raids.
Saying they do not need a medic is kind of silly ,like saying the army does not need infantry line medics.

Schulz,

Are your SERT medics armed for their own protection?

Regards

Matt

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Matt,
I am not sure, let me ask the guy who founded it I work with. Ill get back to you when I find out. I know this policy vary's from department to department

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Sorry it took so long, he got back to me and No, none of our SERT medics are armed.