suicide with a gun, what woudl you do

[firetender]

A discussion was started the other day after we took a suicide attempt with a handgun, to the head.

So you brought a guy to the bathroom who tried to shoot himself with a gun?

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!)

It wasn't an attempt, it was successful and since it was witnessed, I would imagine it would be appropriate to secure the firearm without damaging it as evidence, meaning, get it out of the reach of the distraught relatives because, after all, THEY are your patients.

 

[EMSDude54343]

So you brought a guy to the bathroom who tried to shoot himself with a gun?

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!)

It wasn't an attempt, it was successful and since it was witnessed, I would imagine it would be appropriate to secure the firearm without damaging it as evidence, meaning, get it out of the reach of the distraught relatives because, after all, THEY are your patients.

And thats the main reason why I wouldnt want to stage. To show the family that somone is there, to try and help, instead of having to wait almost 45 min for crew arrival. Pt was DOA, out of the 15 or so suicide attemps I've taken, he was actually the only one that was pronounced on scene, all the rest were either coded and transported by gound, or were stable enough to fly out.

 

[EMSDude54343]

So you brought a guy to the bathroom who tried to shoot himself with a gun?

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist!)

LMAO!! :rofl: Took me a sec, but i guess i should have re-read that line... LOL
But hey , drag him the the bathroom, put him in the bathtub before he really starts beleeding out, and he can just bleed in the tub, less to clean up, less carpet to replace....

 

[Cawolf86]

I prefer to stage for any shootings or stabbings. I will enter after PD. I have been burned by dispatch and sent into an unsafe scene. In this case I would stage. It should be staging per EMD anyways.

 

[usafmedic45]

And thats the main reason why I wouldnt want to stage. To show the family that somone is there, to try and help, instead of having to wait almost 45 min for crew arrival. Pt was DOA, out of the 15 or so suicide attemps I've taken, he was actually the only one that was pronounced on scene, all the rest were either coded and transported by gound, or were stable enough to fly out

Yeah, but until the cops are there and secure it you don't know for sure if they are victims or not. Better safe than sorry. They are already traumatized by the guy painting the walls with his brains and calvarium....a couple more minutes isn't going to make a big difference.

 

[systemet]

I think usafmedic is probably right here.

I will say that on several occasions I have entered the scene for these calls without the cops, because the information from dispatch has been reassuring, e.g. parents upstairs found son unresponsive after self inflicted long weapon wound to the head, wife found elderly husband with transoccipital wound in garage, etc.

But these have been unnecessary risks on both occasions. We tend to give ourselves a little too much importance in these situations. If you've just witnessed your teenage son, or your husband of 50 years kill themselves, or the immediate result of this, that your biggest problem. While a delayed EMS response might add to the agony a little, and it might be something the family choose to fixate upon, it's not even remotely close to the primary problem in this situation. The aftermath of this decision might not be nice when you arrive, but, then again, they may reasonably accept the police responding first (especially if PD response is rapid), and, if they don't, responding to a suicide call isn't about the emergency responders feeling loved and cherish. If we have to absorb a little bit of someone else's anger, at least it's for a good reason.

 

[mycrofft]

Had a classmate survive a small caliber auto-lobotomy.

And this has been observed many times, according to something I read in the Seventies (Schneidman and Farberow?) and EMS I've worked with since. A small caliber through and through to the temple, if survived, can actually rehabilitate quite well considering, and are very unlikely to attempt suicide again. My classmate resumed and finished high school and went on to college.

Nursed a recovering failed murder-suicide (part one worked, part two sent the .357 through his hard pallet, right orbit and sinuses), who was doing pretty ok (lost the eye, couldn't speak, cognitive changes) until we found the nickel-sized melanoma on his back.
Hard to make a blanket judgement, but scene safety trumps heroics.

 

[bw2529]

As someone new to this, I'm going to err on the side of my safety and my crew's safety, and stage. Also, I believe PD here can pronounce if there are obvious signs of injuries incompatible with life... so they may cancel us. I would not actually be the one making the call though, that would be left up to the crew chief (not me).