usafmedic45
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Is it bad that I continue to do so simply because it gives me a smug sense of professional and intellectual superiority?
Students, what should we do with them?
- Thread starter lightsandsirens5
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Is it bad that I continue to do so simply because it gives me a smug sense of professional and intellectual superiority?
Not at all, I was going to try and enroll in a EMT-B course last summer. Perhaps I will try again next year.
DitchDoctorGabe
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I think everyone has made some pretty valid points; this field isn't for everyone and some quickly learn that. Looking from the student aspect I think that part of it falls on whatever training institution they went through. Are they an "EMT" mill and look and quantity and not quality? Is there any sort of pre-screening that can be done? Granted that won't weed out those who aren't cut out for it but it's a start. The other part is that if a student isn't cutting it and a preceptor isn't giving feedback then that person slips through the cracks. There needs to be good communication between everyone involved and sometimes it isn't until they get further along in their education that someone figures out it's not for the student.
From the new hire standpoint, I think ASAP is the best time to let them know. count your loses and move on from there. Granted each person is different but after a few runs you figure out if they are meant to do this job. Good post you started, sorry didn't mean to be so long winded.
From the new hire standpoint, I think ASAP is the best time to let them know. count your loses and move on from there. Granted each person is different but after a few runs you figure out if they are meant to do this job. Good post you started, sorry didn't mean to be so long winded.
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Wow, another EMS gone wrong thread... 
Well, I guess to answer the OP question, having worked as an FTO, there's only one thing that I will make me throw the towel in. When the rookie, newbie, probie, etc... doesn't care anymore. I can spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to get them up to speed on very simple things, but when they don't want to learn or the first time that they say :censored::censored::censored::censored: it, I wash my hands of them, and turn in appropriate paperwork. I've worked with providers that were dumb as rocks (I know, it's a slight against rocks...), but they never gave up, we worked on simple things that they should have mastered in EMT class, they did homework, they practiced their little hearts out, and eventually they got it and became good providers. My philosophy is that I can help guide them through a lot of things, but I can't teach them to want to do this. EMS isn't rocket surgery, it's really just trained monkey work (as it stands now) anyone can do it, if they really want to. This isn't saying that everyone should, but it's not that hard, and if they really want to learn, and they will make the sacrifices to do it, then the least I can do as a trainer is to help them succeed. But I will also say that it's just for basic EMS, other specialized evironments do require personalities and/or abilities that you might have to work on just a little bit more...
Well, I guess to answer the OP question, having worked as an FTO, there's only one thing that I will make me throw the towel in. When the rookie, newbie, probie, etc... doesn't care anymore. I can spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to get them up to speed on very simple things, but when they don't want to learn or the first time that they say :censored::censored::censored::censored: it, I wash my hands of them, and turn in appropriate paperwork. I've worked with providers that were dumb as rocks (I know, it's a slight against rocks...), but they never gave up, we worked on simple things that they should have mastered in EMT class, they did homework, they practiced their little hearts out, and eventually they got it and became good providers. My philosophy is that I can help guide them through a lot of things, but I can't teach them to want to do this. EMS isn't rocket surgery, it's really just trained monkey work (as it stands now) anyone can do it, if they really want to. This isn't saying that everyone should, but it's not that hard, and if they really want to learn, and they will make the sacrifices to do it, then the least I can do as a trainer is to help them succeed. But I will also say that it's just for basic EMS, other specialized evironments do require personalities and/or abilities that you might have to work on just a little bit more...
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mycrofft
Still crazy but elsewhere
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Wake up, thread!
After reading a few "studies" and "news" rumors getting dumped into the forum then debated fiercely, let me say that the answer to the OP question may be that "we" need to stop accepting just anyone into EMS training beyond basic first aid, medical first responder, or EMT-B.
(As for who "We" is, as of now, there is no "We" except maybe as a contentious and disorganized class of people).
How can we ever progress past "cookbook" protocols if the people entering the training for basic and advanced EMS are naive and undereducated enough in how to be informed consumers of the news and it's so-called "statistics" that, on the one hand, they will accept whatever they are told by the mediae and run with it, but on the other hand cannot recognize or believe real data as facts and then take them into consideration?
I think the more important question isn't when to bounce orientees, it's how to screen them first before you go on to having to judge/guide/teach unproductive rookies who should never have gotten to their probationary period anyways.
Sample job app questions:
1. Space aliens build the Interstate Highway system.
2. Long spineboards are a definitive treatment for any fall from any height.
3. A study is scientific if it is published in any part of JEMS magazine, regardless of the size of the sample or who conducted it.
In fact, all medical directors and supervisors should be required to take this sort of test retroactively, wearing a polygraph because we all learn to mimic and lie to keep our cushy jobs.
After reading a few "studies" and "news" rumors getting dumped into the forum then debated fiercely, let me say that the answer to the OP question may be that "we" need to stop accepting just anyone into EMS training beyond basic first aid, medical first responder, or EMT-B.
(As for who "We" is, as of now, there is no "We" except maybe as a contentious and disorganized class of people).
How can we ever progress past "cookbook" protocols if the people entering the training for basic and advanced EMS are naive and undereducated enough in how to be informed consumers of the news and it's so-called "statistics" that, on the one hand, they will accept whatever they are told by the mediae and run with it, but on the other hand cannot recognize or believe real data as facts and then take them into consideration?
I think the more important question isn't when to bounce orientees, it's how to screen them first before you go on to having to judge/guide/teach unproductive rookies who should never have gotten to their probationary period anyways.
Sample job app questions:
1. Space aliens build the Interstate Highway system.
2. Long spineboards are a definitive treatment for any fall from any height.
3. A study is scientific if it is published in any part of JEMS magazine, regardless of the size of the sample or who conducted it.
In fact, all medical directors and supervisors should be required to take this sort of test retroactively, wearing a polygraph because we all learn to mimic and lie to keep our cushy jobs.
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