Spice and Bath Salts

during my first hazmat course

The instructor went over the 4 ways to be exposed to a hazardous chemical.

First he had a picture of a fire officer that looked like it was from the 70's tasting an chemical leaking from a tank car. The instructor's comment was: "If you eat an unknown chemical you get whatever you deserve."

Next he had a picture of a a guy in a white lab coat sniffing a beaker. His comment: " If you sniff an unknown chemical, you deserve whatever you get."

Not to be outdone he had a picture of a family putting on sunblock, stating "If you take an unknown chemical and rub it all over your skin, you deserve whatever you get."

Finally he had a picture of somebody with a hyperdermic needle and a constricting band. "If you take an unknown chemical and inject it into your veins, well..." (he left it at that)

About 1st grade kids start hearing "don't use drugs." That is drilled again and again. There are posters, clubs, tv commercials, pamphlets and all manner of materials and dissemination of the message.

If somebody kills themselves with a "designer drug" or any other drug, it is not a tragedy. It is natural selection.

Whether that drug comes in a bottle from the local gas station, mailed through the internet, or purchased through the homeboy pharmacy network,it takes only the most basic of intelligence to know that you can die from it.

Stupid kills. There is no cure for stupid. In the meanwhile we must continue to wave our fingers at Darwin and treat the symptoms.
 
Veneficus said:
Whether that drug comes in a bottle from the local gas station, mailed through the internet, or purchased through the homeboy pharmacy network,it takes only the most basic of intelligence to know that you can die from it.
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You can "die" from nearly anything. Everyone has done stupid things in their youth, the process of growing up consists of mostly trial and error.

A high school kid overdosing isn't necessarily an inclination of sub-standard DNA but rather the experimenting mentality of an adolescent combined with an unfortunate series of events.

Taking the stance of "any kid that ignores their DARE lecture and takes drugs deserves to suffer a fatal overdose" is extremely ignorant and presumptuous. Not to mention the fact that those lectures notorous for throwing in misinformation in an attempt beat a dead horse which only serves to promote drug use after they discredit the entire source.
 
281mustang said:
You can "die" from nearly anything. Everyone has done stupid things in their youth, the process of growing up consists of mostly trial and error.
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Some survive to reproduce, and some don't.

281mustang said:
A high school kid overdosing isn't necessarily an inclination of sub-standard DNA but rather the experimenting mentality of an adolescent combined with an unfortunate series of events.
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This sounds like trying to put the blame on somebody else or shift responsibility. Poor decision making gets people killed all the time.

Some people choose not to experiment with mind altering substances, some people choose to and survive, some people choose to and don't. It happens with every generation, but a preventable death is still not tragic.

281mustang said:
Taking the stance of "any kid that ignores their DARE lecture and takes drugs deserves to suffer a fatal overdose" is extremely ignorant and presumptuous.
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It was not my intent to suggest that these people deserve a fatal overdose, I used the experience of my early education to demonstrate that drugs are hazardous chemicals, the forms by which they are taken, and the absurdity of using them and thinking it is somehow safe or that harm won't come to them.

I didn't choose the instructor's words, I accurately described the experience.

The reasons people use drugs are many. The consequences are always the same. They are predictable and not beyond control. They are all prevented by the same behavior. (Or rather lack of it) Again, I find nothing tragic about it. Responsibility rests with the individual.

281mustang said:
Not to mention the fact that those lectures notorous for throwing in misinformation in an attempt beat a dead horse which only serves to promote drug use after they discredit the entire source.
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Back in the day when ships were wood and men were iron, we didn't have dare lectures. There are many sources of information available and accessable in which to base sound decision making from. Some people ignore it. But if you tell people that laying down in traffic on the freeway could get you killed, I don't see too many of them rushing out to show off how wrong that information is.

Using or experimenting with drugs is no different from any other high risk behavior. Sometimes you get a second chance. Sometimes you don't. But the moment a person chooses to play, they are soley responsible for the outcome.
 
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Veneficus said:
The instructor went over the 4 ways to be exposed to a hazardous chemical.

First he had a picture of a fire officer that looked like it was from the 70's tasting an chemical leaking from a tank car. The instructor's comment was: "If you eat an unknown chemical you get whatever you deserve."

Next he had a picture of a a guy in a white lab coat sniffing a beaker. His comment: " If you sniff an unknown chemical, you deserve whatever you get."

Not to be outdone he had a picture of a family putting on sunblock, stating "If you take an unknown chemical and rub it all over your skin, you deserve whatever you get."

Finally he had a picture of somebody with a hyperdermic needle and a constricting band. "If you take an unknown chemical and inject it into your veins, well..." (he left it at that)

About 1st grade kids start hearing "don't use drugs." That is drilled again and again. There are posters, clubs, tv commercials, pamphlets and all manner of materials and dissemination of the message.

If somebody kills themselves with a "designer drug" or any other drug, it is not a tragedy. It is natural selection.

Whether that drug comes in a bottle from the local gas station, mailed through the internet, or purchased through the homeboy pharmacy network,it takes only the most basic of intelligence to know that you can die from it.

Stupid kills. There is no cure for stupid. In the meanwhile we must continue to wave our fingers at Darwin and treat the symptoms.
Click to expand...

No, didn't you hear, we actually outlawed a sense of personal responsibility a few years back. If something bad happens, it automatically is someone else's fault.
 
jgmedic said:
No, didn't you hear, we actually outlawed a sense of personal responsibility a few years back. If something bad happens, it automatically is someone else's fault.
Click to expand...

Seemingly that is the case.
 
Veneficus said:
Some people choose not to experiment with mind altering substances, some people choose to and survive, some people choose to and don't. It happens with every generation, but a preventable death is still not tragic.
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This seems to be where we part ways. Maybe it's just from all the stupid things I did when I was young but I share a degree of empathy for kids that get burned after taking risks. Not to the extent that many others do, but to some degree nonetheless.

Veneficus said:
Using or experimenting with drugs is no different from any other high risk behavior. Sometimes you get a second chance. Sometimes you don't. But the moment a person chooses to play, they are soley responsible for the outcome.
Click to expand...
Very well said. I can drink to that.
 
JWH-018 Data (See Attached)

because I am limited to 3 attachments, I will make a double post.
 

Attachments

JWH-018 Data pt 2 (See attached)
 

Attachments

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Thanks for sharing the data. Note; rats and humans are not perfect analogs, but what hurts a rat, usually does the same to us.
If I ever want to become catatonic I know what to get, usually I just listen to me wife though...:P
 
281mustang said:
This seems to be where we part ways. Maybe it's just from all the stupid things I did when I was young but I share a degree of empathy for kids that get burned after taking risks. Not to the extent that many others do, but to some degree nonetheless.
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It is not that I don't empathise with them or even sympathise in various circumstances.

I just don't see it as an unforeseeable or accidental. Certainly it is not surprising.

I have even encountered people whos substance abuse problems are the least of their worries and probably the only thing they can do to cope. But in the end, it doesn't change the outcome.

As I said in my original statement, we continue to do all we can anyway.
 
Had a 30y/o winner decide to smoke some Spice today, walked into the kitchen, went into a tonic phase, smashed his face into the dishes in the sink followed by a header into the open dishwasher, and a lil' "seizure like" activity per roommate. GCS of 8 on our arrival, sinus tach at 170. Came around with some noxious stimuli but still pretty bashed up. Starting to get it fairly big in our area. Fun.
 
Its the OTC aspect

I am not surprised when I hear of these horrific injuries anymore. Peple have this common misconception that because it is legal and available at the local grocer, it can't do any permenant damage. The synthetic dope has the potential to do some harm, but I have seen several individuals go from productive members of society to schizophrenic nut cases after messing with bath salts. In a city about 40 miles from where I live, police found a man in his underwear attempting to swim up a snow covered hill side in an effort to get away from the snipers. Scary stuff man.
 
jwilbz03 said:
You developed the drug? These synthetic drugs have become a huge issue. I have even had a friend who was twenty two years old die from bath salts a few weeks ago. I have seen countless kids come to the ER with elevated heart rates, emesis, etc. Most of them think they are going to die when they are high off these drugs, however a common trend of these "bad highs" seem to be from mixing these drugs and/or overdosing. They think it's safe to take as much or any at all because it is sold publicly. Complete BS. . .
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My neices father, "the baby daddy", is in ICU right at this present time due to bath salts. This stuff is not to be experimented with.. Spice is now illegal in Virginia.
 
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Bath Salts should be Sched.1 Nationwide

I am sorry to hear about your neices father. What really blows my mind is all of the online drug forums with people screaming about the government stepping in and taking away a "fun time" just because some people don't know how to use in moderation. Are these people serious?! Imagine a world where heroin, coke, crack, meth, and lsd were sold legally at every gas station and corner store. Drugs of this caliber have no business enjoying any status other than schedule one narcotics and I am outraged that bath salts are not under a nationwide ban already.
 
1stHandHelps said:
I am sorry to hear about your neices father. What really blows my mind is all of the online drug forums with people screaming about the government stepping in and taking away a "fun time" just because some people don't know how to use in moderation. Are these people serious?! Imagine a world where heroin, coke, crack, meth, and lsd were sold legally at every gas station and corner store. Drugs of this caliber have no business enjoying any status other than schedule one narcotics and I am outraged that bath salts are not under a nationwide ban already.
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You realize of course that a "bath salt" not meant for medical purposes is not banable under medication schedules?

Considering that many common substances can be used as medications to produce mind altering effects, everything from paint to antifreeze, and a host of indiginous plants as well, I maintain, the solution to illicit substance use is a social issue.

The solution will not be medical or legal.
 
Understood

I apologize for my poor choice of words. Bath salts can not be banned as a medicinal substance or banned as "bath salts" in general. The only ban possible is on specific active ingredients such as mephedrone that are responsible for the deadly side effects. I do understand also that whenever one chemical is banned there are 50 chemists waiting in the wings with a new chemical that differs by only one or two side chains and produces the same result without being included in the ban. It is definately an uphill battle, but getting it out of the stores will be a big first step to lessen the occurrence of overdoses and emergency room visits. I am happy to say that just last week all locations for one major chain of head shop stores (perhaps the most popular and well known of all) decided to pull all bath salt products from their shelves for good. It's a small step, but a step in the right direction.
 
Bath Salts info for presentation.

Hello:

I am a Delaware State Trooper. I was recently transferred to the Aviation Section as a Trooper-Medic. I am currently in school to get my EMT-P Certification. I have to do a presentation for one of my classes. I have chosen to do my presentation on bath salts as it is applies to emergency care. I would appreciate any information you could provide.

Take care and be safe,

--Sean.
 
This stuff is messed up. Had responders find folks with bath salts... and a bathroom with feces-covered pieces of toilet paper stacked literally waist-high recently. Among many other problems.
 
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