Something deep to think about.

Veneficus

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Because at least I could use a break from the paramedic vs EMT, nursing vs. EMS vs. fire, skills vs. education arguments and the like which haven’t changed in decades.

The difference between science and medicine. (Something you might not have been taught in school)

I would like to take a moment to point out the difference between the two. I know that many people think these two topics are synonymous. They are certainly not.

Medicine, deals with people. You know, intelligent beings who have hopes and dreams and fears and the like. They are parents, children, family members, workers of all kinds, the rich, the poor, the abused, the privileged, etc.

Science on the other hand deals with observation, experiment, bodies of collective knowledge, etc.

We use science in medicine in order to help people.

But there comes a point when our use of science does not help people or actually harms them, physically, emotionally, and psychologically.

It is society and individuals that determine where the line between helping and harming is. While it varies and it changes depending on our moments, we must always seek to be aware of where that line is for each person and family.

We as medical providers must always remember that just because we can bring our observations, knowledge and skills to bear upon people, it is not always helpful to them.

Early last week, a group of my peers and I were discussing Dr. Josef Mengele and his experiments and contributions to modern medicine. (Contributions is a rather chilling thought isn’t it?) If you are not aware of him, a strongly urge you to Google him. (through sources other than Wikipedia) As we discussed the topic, I noticed some eerie similarities. He was called the Angel of Death, which is the literal translation of my surname in my ancestral language.(A fact that some of my acquaintances here are always amused at. The patients find it less humorous.) He studied anthropology prior to becoming a doctor. I studied anthropology prior to medical school. Similarly, my medical school is about 25 minutes drive from Auschwitz, or as it is known around here, Oswiecim, where his observations and experiments took place.

So in a bit of reflecting, remembering that I have been formally educated, conditioned, and possess the skills to study people like a zoologist studies animals or an astronomer studies space, I wondered where the difference actually lies?

My conclusion is that I remember that the patients are people. Like me. I am not concerned with their value to society. There are no “lesser creatures” as is a common designation to dehumanize competing populations. They are not subjects, which are the designations of the targets of scientific observation; that the purpose and focus of medicine is not the scientific study of these organisms, but using that knowledge to help those who seek it. It is the difference between a medical scientist and a doctor or other healthcare provider.

For when we lose sight of the humanity and its sufferings, goals, hopes, and perceived value, and cross into absolute objectivity and ruthless efficiency of imposing our knowledge and abilities upon the most vulnerable of society, those who prostrate themselves to us in their broken form and ask for help, then we have crossed a very unfortunate line.

I hope you will all give some consideration to what exactly it is our goals and measure of success is and should be.

I like to think that the goal is not sustaining an organism simply because we have the will and power to do so. I affectionately refer to it as “Frankenstein medicine.”

With power comes responsibility and corruption.

On a happier note, after my last reflection here didn't go so well, I think I will start a blog. Just out of curiosity, is anyone interested in reading it?
 
As long as it doesnt make me fall asleep.

And i think science is the study of nature/medicine. Medicine is the end result of science. Thats the way i see it.
 
On a happier note, after my last reflection here didn't go so well, I think I will start a blog. Just out of curiosity, is anyone interested in reading it?

Yes.
 
It's always been my philosophy during my short time so far in this field, that my goal is the happiness and well being of our patients. What most concerns me is making sure the patient is calm, relaxed, understanding of what I'm doing and what they can expect next, and most of all, comfortable with me.

Case in point: A few weeks ago I had an elderly PT, who's family reported her as having flu like symptoms the night prior, but does not remember the symptoms well enough to describe them (the forgetfulness is her baseline, not a new condition). All she admitted that day is she generally did not feel as well as she should be. She did not want to go to the hospital. Upon asking, it's because if she went, she'd miss her bowling league that night. I proceeded to spend the next couple minutes on scene talking to her about her bowling game, how long she's been doing it, how she got involved, etc. After a few minutes, she decided that perhaps going for the evaluation was a good idea. She was more comfortable at this point. Some EMTs I know would have just tried to "scare" her into going, or perhaps went straight for the refusal. There's alot more to medicine than just drugs and science. Therapy for the soul can work as a great curing agent also, so to speak.
 
Medicine and science are related. One progresses the other. Both are helpful to humans and society. It is when they are tweaked to fit a political/ideological caste it becomes dangerous.
 
Flexner has unfortunately unsured medicine at the highest level puts profit before people.

Although that is why John D Rockefeller hired him in the first place.
 
On a happier note, after my last reflection here didn't go so well, I think I will start a blog. Just out of curiosity, is anyone interested in reading it?

I would be interested in reading it, your posts always make me think and reflect back upon how I can improve my patient care.
 
Early last week, a group of my peers and I were discussing Dr. Josef Mengele and his experiments and contributions to modern medicine. (Contributions is a rather chilling thought isn’t it?) If you are not aware of him, a strongly urge you to Google him. (through sources other than Wikipedia)

Why?

The article at Wikipedia is based on information at sources such as Time Magazine, USA Today, The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, History Channel, various .edu websites, and books with titles like Auschwitz: A Doctor's Eyewitness Account and Josef Mengele: Der Arzt von Auschwitz.

Would it make anything I learn more valuable if I learn it piecemeal and disjointedly from each of those sources individually rather than seeing it all together in one cohesive encyclopedic article?

Wikipedia isn't the be all, end all source of all information, true. But it also isn't the pariah of the information world that some people seem to enjoy making it out to be, either. It's often a great starting place, especially when one is only looking to get a basic understanding of what someone else on the internet was talking about. If the person becomes more interested, well they're free to follow the citations and read more.

The fact that a search for "Josef Mengele" on Google will turn up the Wikipedia article as the first result really says something. It says to me that if I ignore the first result (the Wikipedia article) and focus on the other results, the information I find there is likely to be either based on, or the source of, what's on Wikipedia in the first place, either directly or indirectly. So why bother skipping the aggregate?

On the other hand, if you come across a Wikipedia article that has no citations, or none that seem reputable, by all means look for better information elsewhere if you care enough about the topic you're researching.
 
Just to build on what Veneficus said, I think medicine is part science and part art. We can learn the science in school, but we need experience to master the art.
 
Why?

The article at Wikipedia is based on information at sources such as Time Magazine, USA Today, The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, History Channel, various .edu websites, and books with titles like Auschwitz: A Doctor's Eyewitness Account and Josef Mengele: Der Arzt von Auschwitz.

Would it make anything I learn more valuable if I learn it piecemeal and disjointedly from each of those sources individually rather than seeing it all together in one cohesive encyclopedic article?

Wikipedia isn't the be all, end all source of all information, true. But it also isn't the pariah of the information world that some people seem to enjoy making it out to be, either. It's often a great starting place, especially when one is only looking to get a basic understanding of what someone else on the internet was talking about. If the person becomes more interested, well they're free to follow the citations and read more.

The fact that a search for "Josef Mengele" on Google will turn up the Wikipedia article as the first result really says something. It says to me that if I ignore the first result (the Wikipedia article) and focus on the other results, the information I find there is likely to be either based on, or the source of, what's on Wikipedia in the first place, either directly or indirectly. So why bother skipping the aggregate?

On the other hand, if you come across a Wikipedia article that has no citations, or none that seem reputable, by all means look for better information elsewhere if you care enough about the topic you're researching.

because I looked at the wiki article and it is rather a small part of the total which you can get a better scope of understanding of from some of the other sources on the same search.
 
because I looked at the wiki article and it is rather a small part of the total which you can get a better scope of understanding of from some of the other sources on the same search.

Not to mention anyone can edit wikipedia articles.
 
because I looked at the wiki article and it is rather a small part of the total which you can get a better scope of understanding of from some of the other sources on the same search.

I chuckled at this when I saw that you linked a wiki article on the Trauma Triad of Death. Sorry. :)

I'm torn on learning from Mengele. After a rather traumatic experience reading Apt Pupil one night all alone in the house, I have holocaust nightmares.

As for science vs. medicine, the value of human life is so great that this will be an eternal debate. There are just so many different states of being that some people do not consider "living" while others would never want to live in that condition, and that's not even considering mental illness.
 
I chuckled at this when I saw that you linked a wiki article on the Trauma Triad of Death. Sorry. :)

I'm torn on learning from Mengele. After a rather traumatic experience reading Apt Pupil one night all alone in the house, I have holocaust nightmares.

As for science vs. medicine, the value of human life is so great that this will be an eternal debate. There are just so many different states of being that some people do not consider "living" while others would never want to live in that condition, and that's not even considering mental illness.

yea i wasn't taking a shot at wiki, I was taking a shot at the meagerness of that article.

But what started the discussion and focus on him last week was started by a teacher who was listing his discoveries that have led to current advances or are still the standards of care today.
 
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