So I got fired...

[EMS49393]

Longhornmedic, thank you for clarifying my statement. Its exactly what I meant but was unable to convey on only a few hours of sleep.

 

[gary1969]

Supervision in the ER

In all my years 35 almost I have never heard of anyone being fired for the reason as you describe it. I think apealing to HR or a Union if you have one is a good idea. Is their something else you are leaving out ?

As you go through life, remember "Fair" is a would that decribes an event with rides and ponies" Nothing in Life is absolutely fair. Many people have been fired for an unjust reason.. It's too bad but it happens every day.

Sometime a labor attorney will take your case. It's worth a try. I used to be a union president for a large government EMS system. Sometime we would take on cases just because they were so wrong and might set a president for our members.

 

[akflightmedic]

Which president, Bush, Obama, Clinton?

 

[Aussieaid]

So I came upon a scene with 2 paramedics who had just inserted an EJ. I asked them if they knew what hydrocephalus was. When they looked at me sideways I said, "you are bolus'ing his brain.

Uh...I think someone needs to do a little A&P and pathophysiology review!

 

[Aussieaid]

Which president, Bush, Obama, Clinton?

hehe!

 

[Byrdman]

I'm going to leave my opinion even though this has been covered pretty good.

One question for me would be did the OP have gloves on? If he did, then I would assume he is preparing to stick. If not, then I might be inclined to think he isn't.

I ask this question because according to my National Registry skills test evaluation, the first step after preparing your equipment (which it seems the OP was supposed to have done) is to take proper BSI precautions.

My next part would be why is he doing something that is supposed to be done while under the title of "Nursing student"? I know in my area if you are working as an EMT while going to school for further licensing (EMT-B to EMT-I or EMT-I to Medic), if you are on the clock then you are to be operating AT your level. The only time you can perform skills above your certification level (outside of MD approval) is if you are specifically riding on the truck as a third member student.

The only time I can visualize a person finding a vein without the intent to stick would be if they are functioning under the role of a student and the RN says something like "see if you can find a vein but I'm going to stick"

As a student myself, the only time I would use my knowledge above and beyond my certification level is in assessment. If I were functioning as an ER tech, I would maybe use my knowledge to recognize that a patient is beginning to decline and alert the proper staff members. Similarly, if I were to witness a MVA or someone collapse I would operate as an "informed bystander" and be able to relay an accurate picture to the dispatcher instead of just saying "oh they look bad"

Bottom line, on the clock = do your job, nothing more, on clinical rotations = do what you're there to do. If you have even a little bit of doubt to if you are supposed to be doing it, don't do it. Sounds like the guy had doubt if he was supposed to be looking at veins.

 

[Jeremy89]

...One question for me would be did the OP have gloves on? If he did, then I would assume he is preparing to stick. If not, then I might be inclined to think he isn't.

I ask this question because according to my National Registry skills test evaluation, the first step after preparing your equipment (which it seems the OP was supposed to have done) is to take proper BSI precautions.

Nope- no gloves. I feel with my bare hands first, then put gloves on once I find the spot- this was the common practice for most ED staff.

My next part would be why is he doing something that is supposed to be done while under the title of "Nursing student"? I know in my area if you are working as an EMT while going to school for further licensing (EMT-B to EMT-I or EMT-I to Medic), if you are on the clock then you are to be operating AT your level. The only time you can perform skills above your certification level (outside of MD approval) is if you are specifically riding on the truck as a third member student.

The only time I can visualize a person finding a vein without the intent to stick would be if they are functioning under the role of a student and the RN says something like "see if you can find a vein but I'm going to stick"

As mentioned we were trained for IV insertion as long as the RN was okay with it. I was looking for veins. If he let me insert a line, great. If not, then no harm no foul. Also, as previously mentioned, I could have drawn the blood without a nurse's delegation as soon as the doctor ordered it, but if someone is gonna get stuck for an IV, might as well get the blood then.

Bottom line, on the clock = do your job, nothing more, on clinical rotations = do what you're there to do. If you have even a little bit of doubt to if you are supposed to be doing it, don't do it. Sounds like the guy had doubt if he was supposed to be looking at veins.

I knew full well what I was doing- I was looking for veins. If the nurse didn't come in within a couple more minutes, I would have drawn the blood from the patient and send the stat labs, something that is perfectly within my scope of practice an job description. If he would have let me start a line, it also would have been fine, but all I was doing was looking- I didn't even have an alcohol prep pad or catheter opened.

I stand by my decision and would have done the same thing again. Maybe I pushed the envelope a little bit- I'm one of those guys that wants to help whenever and however I can. This is something that happened in the past and I have moved on. Of all the reasons to be let go, I would much rather it be for "trying to help too much" then being lazy, doing nothing, being late, or, like another tech I worked with (who, by the way, got rehired)- taking and sending explicit pictures of himself at work.

By the way, the reason for termination was, according to Human Resources, NOT for practicing out of scope, but, rather, violation of policy/procedure (failure to get RN's permission before allegedly attempting to start an IV).

 

[EMSLaw]

Meh, depends.


Whilst there's "conspiracy" to commit a crime, there are also other crimes that don't actually happen until you commit it, regardless of intent. (Shoplifting isn't shoplifting till you exit the store... you can hid all the merchandise in your clothing you want, but not illegal till you step past the last register, regardless if you walk around telling all the employees you're planning on stealing stuff.)

Hrm. I'm thinking back to a case in law school that dealt with barbering without a license, and whether the offense was committed when the unlicensed barber picked up the tools, or when he actually began to cut hair...

Either way, if one were to perform a "substantial step" towards the completion of the crime, that would constitute an attempt.

I'm only halfway through this thread, but I feel like putting on the constricting band and palpating the vein is a bridge too far. It's different from what the law might call "mere preparation" - spiking the bag, flushing the line, opening the tagaderm, tearing the tape, getting the saline flush ready and attaching it to the extension set... whatever.

 

[CodyHolt83]

Well man, I hate to hear that you got fired. Sounds to me, like you were simply just trying to help out. Hopefully everything works out for you.