Sicko

Topher38

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Hey I want to hear some thoughts on what you guys think about the movie "Sicko". Good? Bad? What did you think about the movie? How did you feel after watching this?


Documentary look at health care in the United States as provided by profit-oriented health maintenance organizations (HMOs) compared to free, universal care in Canada, the U.K., and France. Moore contrasts U.S. media reports on Canadian care with the experiences of Canadians in hospitals and clinics there. He interviews patients and doctors in the U.K. about cost, quality, and salaries. He examines why Nixon promoted HMOs in 1971, and why the Clintons' reform effort failed in the 1990s. He talks to U.S. ex-pats in Paris about French services, and he takes three 9/11 clean-up volunteers, who developed respiratory problems, to Cuba for care.
 
This was a great film and definitely worth watching. I was required to watch it for a college class on the health care system and then write a short review for it. Half the class had to write positive reviews, and the other half (my half) had to write negative reviews. Personally, I had mixed feelings about the film. You could earn a PhD in the field of public health and only scratch the surface. Most of the issues come down to politics and there really aren't any right answers, just wrong ones. Moore's film was a little too biased for me. Nevertheless, it was factually correct, I learned a lot from it, and would recommend it to anyone.



Here's my review:


Movie Review: ‘Sicko’
The American health care system has many opportunities for improvement. In other words, sometimes it sucks. Michael Moore would probably agree with that last sentence. In his new documentary Sicko, he investigates (to use the term loosely) our health care system and compares it to other health care systems around the world. He portrays the American health care system as overly bureaucratic and full of dangerous and unfair policies that are motivated by avarice. His largely micro level, sensationalized, and anecdotal evidence deserves reproach if he is going to call himself a legitimate documentary filmmaker. On the other hand, if he wanted to call himself a propagandist, then Sicko proves he is a true virtuoso of that art. But as any good propagandist knows, you cannot fool all of the people, all the time. And this film certainly did not fool me.
Moore’s argument was more like an illusion, and therein is the problem. He never gave any real perspective. Anyone can gather bits and pieces of evidence to support any claim. But perspective is the only genuine measure of truth. He provides us with testimonials from people who have experienced horrifying injustices related to our health care system. When the time comes to legitimate his argument with all of those boring details that provide perspective, he changes topics. When the time comes to interview an expert in the field of health care, he fails miserably. He contrasts our health care with other socialized European health care systems. And to say his analysis is slanted would be like calling an ocean moist. For example, he contrasts the French health care and our health care without mentioning France consists of about one fifth of our population and with a much different demographic.
In another part of the film, he interviews some low level health care insurance workers and shows a short clip of a doctor testifying in front of Congress. He even gets one of the workers to cry in front of the camera. Conveniently, he fails to mention that without a system of checks and balances, the health insurance companies would go broke tomorrow. After all, if everyone were able to take out whatever they wanted, the health care business would not exist. But of course, Moore does not even touch upon economic consequences of any kind. Economics does not seem to exist in the socialized utopia he dreams about. One way or the other, everything has to be paid for by someone. And this is an inescapable fact that he completely ignores.
Later in the film, he uses a stunt at the United States Naval facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba to contrast health care suspected terrorists are receiving with our health care in the U.S. If he wants to blame anyone for this disparity, he should look to his liberal buddies in our media. He goes on to take some 9-11 rescue workers to Cuba to receive topnotch free health care. I am sure this was not staged. We have all learned to revere Castro for his honesty and to trust his regime. I am being sarcastic of course, but sometimes you must fight fire with fire. Or in this case, ridiculousness with ridiculousness.
Moore ends his film with the notion that we should think in terms of “we” and not “I.” But, is the U.S. as selfish as Moore portrays it to be? We adhere to a fairly strict capitalistic economy that currently makes us the richest country in the world. In return, we graciously do our own laundry, make our own dinner, and sacrifice the optimal health care of some of our citizenry. In sum, we compromise and sacrifice to ensure our economy provides us with enough money to afford the big stick needed to protect the rest of the world. We do this so countries like France can live under our blanket of protection and not have to worry about being invaded and easily overwhelmed. We also provide more money in economic aid to the world than any other country.
 
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Quite interesting. I had no idea health care could be doled out like that.(OR NOT doled out)


Being in Canada, I didn't realize how lucky we were to have an alturistic man like Tommy Douglas looking out for the societies general well being. ( here as with Great Britian and France, socialism isn't a villified word)

The elderly British gentleman had the true story though. Keep people poor and uneducated and they won't vote. This is how the corporations have nulified democracy.

The positive reaction I would think is that we will see is a major increase in the number of American "tourists" visiting Cuba after seeing how they actually treated the post 911 responders.(your new little buddy to the south)

Do emergency services in the states refuse treatment based on insurance?
 
We do have public hospitals that treat those without insurance or who are unable to pay. In some cases they require you to fill out financial aid forms to get state reimbursement for the care they give. In others, they go to collections, try to get you to finance the balance or seek state subsidy to pay the bill.

In the two areas where I have worked in EMS, we have only had the public district hospitals serving the population. It's my understanding that a private hospital can refuse to treat a non-life threatening injury and turf the pt to a public facility. I've heard of a few lawsuits resulting from a private hospital not stabilizing a pt before sending them to a public facility.
 
In the US, we have a protection called "EMTALA" for emergency medical care in the ED. A hospital physician must assess you and correct any life-threatening conditions (to the Pt. or an unborn child). This is a requirement if the hospital accepts medicare funds... the only "hospitals" that avoid this are the specialized, same-day surgery centers that must get licensed as a private hospital to perform their surgeries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

Per Wikipedia, the same law applies to EMS... but we usually have other protocols anyway.
 
Quite interesting. I had no idea health care could be doled out like that.(OR NOT doled out)


Being in Canada, I didn't realize how lucky we were to have an alturistic man like Tommy Douglas looking out for the societies general well being. ( here as with Great Britian and France, socialism isn't a villified word)

The elderly British gentleman had the true story though. Keep people poor and uneducated and they won't vote. This is how the corporations have nulified democracy.

The positive reaction I would think is that we will see is a major increase in the number of American "tourists" visiting Cuba after seeing how they actually treated the post 911 responders.(your new little buddy to the south)

Do emergency services in the states refuse treatment based on insurance?

:rolleyes: Yes heaven help us yanks with no big warm loving government to help look after us and protect us from ourselves. Everyone konws that governments are ALWAYS looking out solely for citizens...and politicians truly do care about thier constitutants. I truly wish ours were more powerful.

Shame on those rich people for working too much harder than everybody else and earning too much money - why should they get to keep the fruits of their labor.....the lazy poor people who do nothing for society don't deserve any less. Shame on our government for not recognizing that and doling out our money appropriately.

Oh wait...I forgot. High-tech, super expensive medical care isn't a service to be paid for...it's a "right." just like Hi-tech TV to improve quality of life, or free magnetic brain-wave modifers to decrease stress.....It's all right there in the constitution.


As for the little democracy thing.

You may have "democracy" north of the boarder....you can keep it. The US of A is a republic....and it should be. People are dumb, poor people tend to be uneducated and ignorant, and in general have no business participating in the sorts of decisions made by the government which require much more complex understanding than they posses. Heck, I have no business participating in some of these decisions - what do I know about monetary policy? (e.g)....experts rightly have a bigger influence on governmental decision making.

Increase the political power of the masses and all you get is pandering where the government makes all sorts of promises to the people that it can't afford to pay for. Who is a low-income household going to vote for - the politician that promises them a free car, free healthcare, free food, free housing, free utiliites, free television, and a free puppy dog.....or the one who wants to make logical cut in non-essential services and get control of government spending...or has some complex plan for spurring the economy?

Which one is better for society? Sorry...direct democracy stinks.
 
JRM 818, glad to see that edgumacation thing is working for you.

You should try immigrating to the Peoples Republic of China, sounds like you would really like it, no democracy there, and all the people do as their told,with no pesky little issues such as voting....

Also no HMO's.

Glad you posted anyways, makes it easier to understand some of those cultural blips like the Branch Davidians, or Jonestown.
 
The elderly British gentleman had the true story though. Keep people poor and uneducated and they won't vote. This is how the corporations have nulified democracy.
People don't vote because corporations have kept them uneducated? Thats odd. Corporations aren't in charge of education or the lack of it in the US. Most people don't vote because they see all politicans as lying scumbags.

Do emergency services in the states refuse treatment based on insurance?
No
 
Firecoins, the corporations own the lobbyists, the lobbyists end up buying the politicians.

This has created a new form of "royalty", or to coin a term from your civil war " Robber Barons". This why the top 1 % control 80% of the wealth, control the law makers and you control the taxes.

Being closely associated to our southern neighbours, we have similar problems here, most people have great disdain for politicians also.

We see cuts to Health care, education, police budgets, public infrastructure,etc.... while the big corporations enjoy record profits and next to no taxation.

At the end of WW II the taxation base was 55% public and 45% corporate, now the figures are around 95% to the workin' joe and 5 % payed by the corporations.

Glad to see emergency service's don't refuse service.
 
Yes, we are victims who have no control over our lives. We are victims of the man. Lets stick it to him.

Its takes money to run an election. The larger the office, the more money it takes. You want camapign finance? Great! Meanwhile the presidential election has 3 horrible choices for US President. And yet there is record turnout. People are voting.
 
Saving me a lot of typing to counter the so called documentary "Sicko", here is a perspective worth looking at in balancing some of the true issues...

Sicko Heavily Doctored

Ray
 
JRM 818, glad to see that edgumacation thing is working for you.

You should try immigrating to the Peoples Republic of China, sounds like you would really like it, no democracy there, and all the people do as their told,with no pesky little issues such as voting....

Also no HMO's.

Glad you posted anyways, makes it easier to understand some of those cultural blips like the Branch Davidians, or Jonestown.


Meh, to be fair the entire point of the constitution was to limit the power of the masses anyways. The only direct election when the US Constitution was originally drafted was for the House of Representatives. The US Senate was filled with politicians chosen by state legislatures and even now we don't directly elect the president (that's the role of the electoral college, whose members are chosen by the state legislature. There's nothing technically stopping an elector from changing their vote in most states or a state from electing electors whose wishes do not conform with the majority/proportion of voters). The simple fact is that a pure democracy (point of clarification: most "democratic" countries are actually republics, not true democracies) is just as bad, if not worse, than a dictatorship.
 
Firecoins, it seems that many of your citizens are excited to exercise thier right to vote. Sadly, many countries do not allow this freedom or any choice on who controls them, bad or good.

Ray, Sicko is a Hollywood production after all.

I know of many Canadians that go state side for treatment that is rationed here. The good thing is often the government ends up paying.

I especially like the critique at the bottom of the page, stating that if you are spending 2 billion a week in Iraq, there should be money for health care.
 
Firecoins, it seems that many of your citizens are excited to exercise thier right to vote. Sadly, many countries do not allow this freedom or any choice on who controls them, bad or good.

Ray, Sicko is a Hollywood production after all.

I know of many Canadians that go state side for treatment that is rationed here. The good thing is often the government ends up paying.

I especially like the critique at the bottom of the page, stating that if you are spending 2 billion a week in Iraq, there should be money for health care.

I know Sicko is a Hollywood production, but until I posted the my last post, several folks here were treating it as if it was something from PBS's Frontline.

Money for socialized health care is not the reason the States have not adopted that kind of care. The very reason Canada has to ration health care treatment is one example. Remember, Hillary tried with her husband Bill, to introduce socialized care here nine years before Iraq was ever an issue as it is today.

Ray
 
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Why have I never noticed you around before?
Socialism, which tends to be top-down, and direct democracy are two different but related phenomena, though.

Bonedog, srsly? It's really hard to pretend you're reasonable when you compare advocates of a constitutional republic to the Branch Davidians. I can almost see you wiping the spittle off your monitor.
 
Mr. C, mea culpa, branch godwin.

I bet this guy would claim to be from the same party as Abe Lincoln/Teddy Rosevelt. If he is a medic.....
 
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