The other day while I was working, (I'm a lifeguard), an elder man went down our waterslide, and he came out in a seizure-like state, convulsing, and arms perpendicular to his body. After a few seconds of being rescued and pulled to the side with head being supported, he stopped, shook off a bit and got out of the pool without assistance and was instantly fine. He had no other symptoms of a seizure, and I've seen this before, but not this intensity. So basically, my question is, how do I determine the difference between a seizure and this, in case further treatment/care is necessary. Not necessarily at work, but in my personal life if I encountered a situation like this for whatever reason. Thanks!
Seizure vs. Panic
- Thread starter ryanbg
- Start date
sixmaybemore
Forum Crew Member
- 57
- 0
- 0
It's possible it *was a seizure. There are many different kinds of seizure. I can't remember the name of the type you are describing - not a lot you can do if the person comes out of it, and can't be convinced anything happened. http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/types_seizures
KEVD18
Forum Deputy Chief
- 2,165
- 10
- 0
go to medical school. seriously, thats the only way for you to be able to effectively diagnose and treat.
other than doing that, asses the patient according to your level of training, treat as appropriate, recommend that they be evaluated further by a physician, if they refuse document it and carry on with your day/life.
you cant save everyone. you cant fix stupid and you cant save the world. the very second you fully realize and accept that, 95% of the physical and emotional stress associated with emergency medicine flies away and never comes back.
sixmaybemore
Forum Crew Member
- 57
- 0
- 0
Don't we wish.
KEVD18
Forum Deputy Chief
- 2,165
- 10
- 0
i dont. i very firmly believe in natural selection. there are without a doubt people too stupid to continue living and polluting the gene pool. allowing them to weed themselves out is a good thing.
sixmaybemore
Forum Crew Member
- 57
- 0
- 0
Good point. From my perspective, I work more (right now) with kids than anything, and it's just breaks my heart when kids are the victims because of their parents stupidity. Add a kid into the situation, and it just seems to be so much worse than an adult doing stupid.
Last edited by a moderator:
mikie
Forum Lurker
- 1,071
- 1
- 36
LucidResq
Forum Deputy Chief
- 2,031
- 3
- 0
Then why are you in EMS? 90% of the purpose of this field is fighting natural selection.
Sasha
Forum Chief
- 7,667
- 11
- 0
Airwaygoddess
Forum Deputy Chief
- 1,924
- 3
- 0
Hmmmm, caring for the sick and injured and being the patient's advocate, I thought that is why we did this job.
mikie
Forum Lurker
- 1,071
- 1
- 36
And the pay! ^_^
Sasha
Forum Chief
- 7,667
- 11
- 0
And the excitement! You KNOW its exciting to get that stubbed toe call at 3am!
Ridryder911
EMS Guru
- 5,923
- 40
- 48
Back to the OP. Although there are several hundreds of different seizure activity, if he did not loose consciousness during the "convulsions" and no postictal (relaxation phase) immediately afterwards, then I would assume that it was NOT a seizure activity.
R/r911
R/r911
Maybe we should stop putting effort into saving children who are 23 - 25 weeks gestation and those who have cardiac defects or the many other anomalies they can be born with. And yes, some can be attributed to the parents. If you can't fix stupid, this might be the next best solution.
These kids are expensive and will probably require expensive medical care for the rest of their lives, where there too we have made great advances to see they live longer. Many 23 weeks babies do now grow up with few deficits but to get them through 3 months of NICU costs a fortune. Let's stick to 27 weeks and otherwise healthy babies being born like it used to be. If you can't fix stupid, this might be the next best solution.
Since this country has its hangups about sex education in the schools or options made readily available, maybe we should just fund abortion clinics as an alternative. That too might keep the wrong people from having babies.
Stop saving them while they are young or not yet born so they don't get the chance to grown up to be stupid adults.
I hope no one takes what I just wrote as my opinion but rather crap I have heard from others during the 20+ years I have worked in the NICUs and PICUs. At least 2x/ year we must go to battle against remarks like that from people who try to take funding away from programs that benefit children.
You would have a heart attack at my job then. I rescued a kid the other day, when I got him out and settled down, I asked him where his parents were. The kid says "Shopping at the MOA". (about 45 minutes away). This is a 7 year old kid.
sixmaybemore
Forum Crew Member
- 57
- 0
- 0
Oh, good grief.
I'm in a mood tonight, so I"ll just say it. Sometimes, people really suck. As my three year old would say "you makin' me MAD!".
Could perhaps have been a myoclonic seizure.
(ref: http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_myoclonic )
or more likely (due to age, reported length of seizure, and the fact the guy said nothing was wrong) a simple partial seizure (simple = no LOC, partial = ... partial body)
(ref: http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_simplepartial )
Or .. maybe he was related to FAINTING GOATS!
(ref: http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_myoclonic )
or more likely (due to age, reported length of seizure, and the fact the guy said nothing was wrong) a simple partial seizure (simple = no LOC, partial = ... partial body)
(ref: http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_simplepartial )
Or .. maybe he was related to FAINTING GOATS!
Last edited by a moderator:
volparamedic
Forum Probie
- 18
- 0
- 0
Seizure vs panic
Well, there are different types of seizures. Sudo-Seizure, Petite Mal and Grand Mal. The Grand mal's patients usually have a phase called postical. They're confuses and sometime extremely combative. The do not breath when they have these types of seizures and will have snoring respirations. Dilated pupils, tachy heart rates, very common to bite their tongue and sometimes incontient with BM or urine. It can be bad if the seizure last too long or have two or more with no complete recovery. Petite Mal they can space out or have a twitch and still talk. The good thing is they do not stop breathing. But that doesn't mean it's harmless. It may lead to more severe seizures. Sudo-seizures are pshyological issues they can look like real seizures but then a just fine acutely. No postical phase. Don't be fooled though. Someone once filed a law suit because there was no care given for a sudo-seizure even though it wasn't life threatening and the other party one. The court saw SEIZURE in the word and didn't care about the rest of it. Always attempt to get an ambulance to check them out! And at least get an NPC signed AMA.
I actually had a healthy person have two seizures without a complete recovery time. The second seizure they had maxed out with 10mg valium and still seizing. They went to sinus tach, to sinus, to sinus brady, to junctional, to idioventricular, to asystole. Did 2 minutes of CPR and they came back at SVT 180. Come to find out...the body dumps epi and norepi into your system to protect it's self. This can cause cardiac dysrhythmia's even in health individuals.
Well, there are different types of seizures. Sudo-Seizure, Petite Mal and Grand Mal. The Grand mal's patients usually have a phase called postical. They're confuses and sometime extremely combative. The do not breath when they have these types of seizures and will have snoring respirations. Dilated pupils, tachy heart rates, very common to bite their tongue and sometimes incontient with BM or urine. It can be bad if the seizure last too long or have two or more with no complete recovery. Petite Mal they can space out or have a twitch and still talk. The good thing is they do not stop breathing. But that doesn't mean it's harmless. It may lead to more severe seizures. Sudo-seizures are pshyological issues they can look like real seizures but then a just fine acutely. No postical phase. Don't be fooled though. Someone once filed a law suit because there was no care given for a sudo-seizure even though it wasn't life threatening and the other party one. The court saw SEIZURE in the word and didn't care about the rest of it. Always attempt to get an ambulance to check them out! And at least get an NPC signed AMA.
I actually had a healthy person have two seizures without a complete recovery time. The second seizure they had maxed out with 10mg valium and still seizing. They went to sinus tach, to sinus, to sinus brady, to junctional, to idioventricular, to asystole. Did 2 minutes of CPR and they came back at SVT 180. Come to find out...the body dumps epi and norepi into your system to protect it's self. This can cause cardiac dysrhythmia's even in health individuals.