Running lights vs running hot

jpregulman said:
Because college students wont move out of the way. I think that was a bad example. I dont want people to not see us when it is 11pm dark and they are drunk.
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Again, not a valid concern. If they are drunk, what makes you think they will yield to lights?
 
jpregulman said:
Because college students wont move out of the way. I think that was a bad example. I dont want people to not see us when it is 11pm dark and they are drunk.
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Do you have a major MV-Pedestrian problem on campus? If not, just drive like the other drivers at night. Don't haul *** through campus, pay attention and you won't hit anybody. If you're driving on sidewalks (I'm assuming there is absolutely no other way), then you should be creeping along anyway.
 
We do, the police drive on them as well. We do creep along currently just to navigate everywhere.

Yes we do have a big Ped problem. The students just arent used to getting out of the way of moving things even when it is going 5 mph.

So the general conciseness im getting is No lights unless it is required in protocols.
 
MV-Ped as in pedestrians getting hit by cars. Y'all do have a big problem with that?

So you sound like you're fairly level-headed. That's good. You would probably be okay responding however you ended up responding. However, a large portion of EMTs are not, especially younger ones (like you likely have on your college EMS service). People tend to get a sense of entitlement and power while running code. They haul *** without regard to the safety of themselves or others. If you really have that many people wandering around drunk and not watching for vehicles, you are begging to for one of your crew members to hit somebody. Driving emergent does not save that much time, especially for something as small as a college/university campus. Drive like a normal citizen would to get to where you need to go. It is much safer, and the patient will get seen plenty soon enough.
 
I think using at least lights is necessary, maybe not with sirens all the time but the lights should be on to signify that you are responding to an emergency IMHO, but don't drive recklessly, don't do anything stupid.
 
Ha thanks, I would hope I am level headed, I am running for ast. Cheif.

First a few things about our drivers.

They all will go through a Ambulance training course (state approved of course)
They are all over 18 with clean or almost clean driving records
They go through a hour long drive over EVERY street and sidewalk on campus with a member of our exec board.

About our students:
Last week (or sometime around there) a student (not drunk, during the day) crossing a 2 lane road, next to the hospital was hit by a car. He/she was not looking. Most students don't pay attention to their surroundings. We as a company do not have a problem with hitting people!


About us responding to calls:
Again I only want us to turn on the flashing blue and reds while responding CODE 2! Most if not all calls that we get do not require code 3.


Is there some kind of requirement saying that when we have lights we have to drive fast and disregard safety, no. I think that lights can help increase the visibility of us on campus. It does not do much to raise the Epi levels in the driver or responders (as far as i know).

I know that going code 3 (hot) only really increases accidents and only saves like a minute. If you got rid of 2 buildings we could see the hospital from our base of service.

We have no protocols that require us to run lights and sirens for any reason as we are BLS only, most of our patients can wait an extra minute or two.


What I am asking is what do yall think of having the lights on while driving. Similar to when you get our of your rig and leave the lights but not sirens on when on a traffic scene or at night (well the ambulance companies here do)


Also in response to all the people saying this is for looks. It could not hurt us to look more, pardon my terms, legit. Most students on campus think we are a bunch of students running around with a few band aids. While in reality we run at least 2 EMT-B's and have a medical director at the local hospital.


Sorry about the long post....
 
a quick blip of the siren or air horn will clear up an confusion of Ambulance vs plumber. They also tend to motivate unaware pedestrians. Your school probably has a strong preference that you run quiet.
 
Ha, I never thought about how the university feels.:rofl:. although it wont be different from the once a week fire truck for "dorm fires" aka easy mac in the microwave w/o water.
 
Aim the window squirters forwards and put ice cubes in the reservoir.
 
jpregulman said:
Ha thanks, I would hope I am level headed, I am running for ast. Cheif.

First a few things about our drivers.

They all will go through a Ambulance training course (state approved of course)
They are all over 18 with clean or almost clean driving records
They go through a hour long drive over EVERY street and sidewalk on campus with a member of our exec board.
Still pretty minimal training standards, especially for younger drivers with less experience. Our drivers have to go through the same EVAP course and have at least 5 drives to the hospital, two of which must be emergent. (Note: it's an hour each way to the nearest hospital) In addition, department policy is that you must be at least 21 to drive and we prefer you to be at least 25.
About our students:
Last week (or sometime around there) a student (not drunk, during the day) crossing a 2 lane road, next to the hospital was hit by a car. He/she was not looking. Most students don't pay attention to their surroundings. We as a company do not have a problem with hitting people!


About us responding to calls:
Again I only want us to turn on the flashing blue and reds while responding CODE 2! Most if not all calls that we get do not require code 3.
You better check you state laws regarding this. Some states do not offer emergency vehicle exemptions unless you are using lights AND sirens. I realize that you are not looking to use the emergency vehicle exemptions, but what would happen if you your rig was involved in an accident with anything while driving with lights only?

Is there some kind of requirement saying that when we have lights we have to drive fast and disregard safety, no. I think that lights can help increase the visibility of us on campus. It does not do much to raise the Epi levels in the driver or responders (as far as i know). And what happens when people on campus don't yield to your lights? It's a quick, easy, and almost unavoidable upgrade to turning on the siren.

I know that going code 3 (hot) only really increases accidents and only saves like a minute. If you got rid of 2 buildings we could see the hospital from our base of service.

We have no protocols that require us to run lights and sirens for any reason as we are BLS only, most of our patients can wait an extra minute or two.
Then I would say leave them off.

What I am asking is what do yall think of having the lights on while driving. Similar to when you get our of your rig and leave the lights but not sirens on when on a traffic scene or at night (well the ambulance companies here do)
Absolutely, your lights should be on. Headlights, clearance lights, parking lights and that's it. None that blink unless you're using your turn signal

Also in response to all the people saying this is for looks. It could not hurt us to look more, pardon my terms, legit. Absolutely the wrong reason to do it then Most students on campus think we are a bunch of students running around with a few band aids. While in reality we run at least 2 EMT-B's and have a medical director at the local hospital. In reality, EMT-B's are little more than people with band aids that happen to bring them in an ambulance


Sorry about the long post....
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My comments in red.
 
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I dont want to get in to an argument of BLS vs ALS. Yes ALS can do more, however i resent you saying that, that is all we are. Most college students only need BLS, and we provide this service for free. If you were talking about EMR's then i would agree. However we can do much more than just bandaids.

Yes i know most companies require at least 21 or 25 to drive. If we did that, no one would drive.

Here is a more concise thing I am looking at presenting;


Use of Lights and Siren


When responding to all calls, accept transport only, the flashing blue and red lights should be used. All traffic laws should be obeyed, including speed limit.

When transporting patients lights should be used while on the sidewalks/private roads of (Insert University Name). When transporting patients on private roads lights should not be used unless dictated by protocol. While driving on (Insert University Name) and public roads all traffic law, including speed limit should be obeyed.

At all times drivers will obey all traffic laws at all times.
 
After you've been in EMS for any length of time, you will realize the truth of my comments about EMT-B's, especially when you start to deal with truly sick patients.

Think about it...there are only a few things that an EMT-B is allowed to do that a Boy Scout with a First Aid Merit Badge isn't.
 
I still have to disagree. However that is not the point of this post.
 
Disagree all you want, but it's still relevant to the discussion, and it's still the truth.
 
jpregulman said:
Tell me a boy scout can do all of this;

http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/ems_scope_practice0312.pdf

We are able to provide treat and release on 40% of our calls, transport on 45%.

Thanks for your advice.
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I said most of it, not all of it. The Boy Scouts just don't feel the need to detail every little thing that can be done, but it is essentially the same.
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-FIRS.aspx

More importantly, in the types of calls that you stated you primarily respond to, their treatment procedures are the same.
 
ffemt8978 said:
There is no valid reason for this concern, other than your self image. What does it matter if somebody sees you and thinks you are a service van?
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I don't know about everyone else, but I've had days where I could only hope we would be mistaken for a service van!

As for the OP, I have to agree with the no lights sentiment most everyone has already expressed.
 
How big is your campus? Student population and square mileage.

A potential compromise could be amber lights similar to what tow trucks and security units use to request the right of way if vehicles/pedestrians want.

The problem with responding with red/blue lights without actually running emergent is that it WILL eventually degrade to borderline code 3. Accidents will eventually happen.


Also, you said your campus has a problem with auto vs ped...yet you said there's been only one this year?
 
Running lights:

_56384644_light_runner.jpg



Running hot:

2974625370071927805S600x600Q85.jpg
OR
636-01457539w.jpg


We clear now?

haha :P
 
Here, it's illegal to use lights without sirens. There's a lesson to be taken from that. It's either a critical patient or it's not. IF IT WERE ME however, I would not be on an event field, sidewalk, or crowded parking lot without lights on if I'm making my way to a patient or making my way out with a patient. If you hit someone you now have two patients.
 
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