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Reason before faith.
Religion
- Thread starter dewd09
- Start date
Lifeguards For Life
Forum Deputy Chief
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what kind of religious beliefs would one have that would prevent that person from delivering patient care? I do not really buy in to the whole religion thing, but respect the religious beliefs of others. I guess one of my big things about religion is I don't think I have any right to tell other people there religion is wrong, and that if they want eternal salvation they have to believe in this or that. never set right with me....
There aren't too many that are EMT specfic, but
Members of many religions might have problems with anything relating to abortion care/birth control
Members of Eastern religions might have problems treatments that use animal byproducts
Members of extremely conservative religions might have problems with caring for people of the opposite sex
Male members of conservative religions might have problems with ob/gyn issues.
Muslims/Jews might have problems with pig-derived drugs, but this one is kind of stretching because I don't know of any other than some types of insulin and I don't think any paramedics administer that.
Obviously most of these beliefs are really rare and hopefully the people who hold them would logically realize that EMS isn't a good field for them; however, most of them aren't done out of consideration for other people's eternal salvation.
Well, not everyone who gets into healthcare does it for noble reasons. Maybe that EMT was just in it to drive code 3.
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Smash
Forum Asst. Chief
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I feel sorry for the Service that is now getting sued, I feel they had every right to terminate her services.
Ms Adamson clearly decided not to perform the duties required of her in the employment of that service. It is irrelevant whether it was her religion that informed her choice; quite simply she should not be working in EMS if she is unable to care for all of her patients because of personal choices.
I wonder what the next step is? Refusing to transport gay, lesbian or transgender people because your religion dictates that these lifestyles are sinful?
It's like starting work at an abbatoir and then informing them that you will not be slaughtering animals as you are a vegetarian: find another job.
Ms Adamson clearly decided not to perform the duties required of her in the employment of that service. It is irrelevant whether it was her religion that informed her choice; quite simply she should not be working in EMS if she is unable to care for all of her patients because of personal choices.
I wonder what the next step is? Refusing to transport gay, lesbian or transgender people because your religion dictates that these lifestyles are sinful?
It's like starting work at an abbatoir and then informing them that you will not be slaughtering animals as you are a vegetarian: find another job.
medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
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i'll have to disagree with the majority here... i think the firing was a little extreme. another ambulance was sent to take the pt, as long as she stayed there with the pt to observe her i dont feel that any wrong was done. and the abdominal pain complaint, im no expert, but i imagine that might have something to do with a fetus growing in your uterus.
i'm thinking some other for of disciplinary action is in order. thats my opinion though.
i'm thinking some other for of disciplinary action is in order. thats my opinion though.
medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
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Okay, I'll play Devil's advocate.
What about next time something happens that involves a religious issue? Do you really want her in that situation again? She's already shown her true colors.
firetender
Community Leader Emeritus
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Given the circumstances cited in the article, I have to agree with the company because the job that she is paid (or empowered) to do ALSO includes doing what is necessary to keep her company/Employer viable. If that includes routine transfers, then that's the deal. Her job is to transport, not to decide what she wants to do or not (for whatever reason).
AlphaButch
Forum Lieutenant
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The case was settled out of court.
+1 for go into a field where your religious beliefs don't keep you from doing your job. (Your is generalized here, not to anyone specific).
+1 for go into a field where your religious beliefs don't keep you from doing your job. (Your is generalized here, not to anyone specific).
That article is dated 2006. Anyone know what happened with the case?
In my opinion, her job was to transport patients, and she refused to do it. That seems like reasonable grounds for dismissal. If she'd been fearing this run, she should've worked that out with her employer beforehand. Once you're on scene, it's too late. Do your job or be fired.
I consider a lot of things that patients do to be sinful. But I would never make them aware of that. As a general rule, patients call us during times of weakness. To take advantage of that to pass moral judgments is selfish, cruel, and perhaps even abusive.
In my opinion, her job was to transport patients, and she refused to do it. That seems like reasonable grounds for dismissal. If she'd been fearing this run, she should've worked that out with her employer beforehand. Once you're on scene, it's too late. Do your job or be fired.
I consider a lot of things that patients do to be sinful. But I would never make them aware of that. As a general rule, patients call us during times of weakness. To take advantage of that to pass moral judgments is selfish, cruel, and perhaps even abusive.
Smash
Forum Asst. Chief
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If we start allowing discrimination like this, where does it end? Is it ok to refuse to transport gays, lesbians, transgendered people, Jews or Muslims because we find their lifestyle or religious choices to be morally reprehensible? I genuinely am curious to know where that line is drawn, and why it is drawn there?
This EMT was fired because she refused to do her job and ultimately she discriminated against a customer. It is absurd to claim that she was discriminated against on the basis of her religion.
being LBGT or jewish or muslim is quite a bit different than killing a fetus just because you don't want it and calling an ambulance instead of a cab because your medicare/medicaid will foot the bill.
im not saying that she was right. im saying i can understand her issue, and shouldn't be fired in this instance, just reprimanded somehow, not too lightly though. it would be up to the EMT to decide whether this is still the right field for her. for some moral/religious obligations are as strong as or stronger than someone's reaction to an irrational fear. not totally their fault, but they should learn to deal with it or make sure they're not in that position again.
had she refused to transport because the pt was black, jewish, gay, or a black gay jew, then hell yes she should be fired. a little contradictory to my the above paragraph, i know, but that kind of discrimination is generally found in ignorance, and a hate for the person themselves. not so much an issue with what they're doing.
medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
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The religion and personal views of the provider have no place in EMS or medicine. Period.
No, it would not be up to the EMT to decide if this is the right field for her, as she clearly has no idea what medicine involves or what patients deserve. She should have known that there might be a time when her religion might get in the way. She should have made the decision to either put her beliefs aside, or she should have gotten out of the field ASAP.
Why is this situation different? She refused to transport somebody that was different from what she thought was "right." Putting her own wishes before that of the patient was ignorant.
Basically, if she did it once, it could have easily happened again. She clearly demonstrated that she had no place in this field, and since I doubt she would have seen through her own misguided actions, the company did the right thing.
Smash
Forum Asst. Chief
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It's exactly the same. It is passing a moral judgement on a person for an act that you find to be reprehensible, and that moral position is typically informed by religous convictions. Therefore discriminating against a person who is having an abortion is no different to say, discriminating against a LBGT person. If you are going to draw a line in the sand that says "Taking of a life" (for arguments sake although this may not actually be applicable in the case mentioned) then I assume that it is reasonable to refuse to respond to a prison to care for or transport a person incarcerated for murder?
You may draw that line at transporting someone to have an abortion. Will you defend my right to refuse to transport a Muslim patient because I find it to be morally repugnant that they require their wives to wear a hijab, therefore demeaning and disempowering women?
Why the ambulance was called is not mentioned in either of the articles, nor is it in any way relevant. The ambulance service was contracted to carry out a transport. The EMT refused to carry out her duties as an agent of the service to discharge this contract, therefore it is entirely appropriate she be terminated. How often do we allow EMTs to refuse to carry out their duties? How much of a financial burden do we let individual EMTs place on the service by requiring another response every time this sort of issue arises? Do we let this continue until such time as the provision of such services becomes financially unsustainable and we are forced to lay off EMTs?
If the criteria is "could have gone in a cab" then I guess we had all better get our cab licenses, because there won't be much call for EMTs anymore
Fortunately the service she worked for managed to ensure that she was not in that situation again, so I guess it's a win/win
It is indeed utterly contradictory. You are happy that someone can discrimate against a person because of one choice they make, but not another. I find IV drug use to be morally repulsive as it leads to many problems in society. Are you then happy that I refuse to transport someone with Hep C contracted from dirty needles because I disapprove of their lifestyle choices? After all, I don't hate the person, I just have an issue with what they are doing.
If someone wants to provide moral judgements on someone, fine, go be a preacher. EMTs don't provide pastoral care, we provide medical care and transport services. If you can't do that, don't work in EMS.
all im saying is how i would have dealt with the EMT had i been in the position to do so, and my reasoning for it. if you disagree, just be glad i don't run my own company.
and you know what i'm saying with the cab thing... everyone here has responded to a call and thought "WHY?!?!". don't deny it. you know you have. sure it keeps us employed, but its still frustrating.
and you know what i'm saying with the cab thing... everyone here has responded to a call and thought "WHY?!?!". don't deny it. you know you have. sure it keeps us employed, but its still frustrating.
As far as I'm aware, Judaism teaches that whatever needs to occur to save/preserve life takes precedence over Kashrut (dietary restrictions). Pig-derived medication, therefore, is acceptable. I'm not saying there aren't some providers out there who can't make that distinction, but, in the event they would refuse to administer medication on those grounds, they have pretty poor religious backing.
Smash
Forum Asst. Chief
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I'd be glad for you to run your own company, and I'd be glad to work for you.
After all, if I can refuse to do my job, yet remain employed, why wouldn't I?!
subliminal1284
Forum Lieutenant
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Im Glad she got fired, I feel no sympathy for arrogant people like that.
I'd be glad for you to run your own company, and I'd be glad to work for you.
After all, if I can refuse to do my job, yet remain employed, why wouldn't I?!
meh... i don't want my own company... by my boss's example, owning a private ambulance co. entails sitting in the office wearing only tighty-whities and eating fish. american ambulance is so :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing weird...