ratted out partner
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mycrofft
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Agreed, but make a note of the time, date, and any witnesses, and don't threaten to do something. Once that person knows you may "rat them out", they may set you up to stop-punch you. Don't threaten; drop the hammer, or don't.
Then there is shunning. Just tell them and your boss you don't want to work with that person anymore. The boss can ask them why if she or he feels like it.
By the way, "ratting out" as a phrase is one cultural sign of untrustworthiness and bullying being allowed and rewarded.
SandpitMedic
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Omg. I'm going to try to lay this to rest.
No one has "scared" anyone off; there are just certain things people won't agree on. Frankly, I'm tired of the back and forth debate where no one is going to change their mind. Look at politics- a bunch of adults hashing things out like grown ups right? Yeah, not so much. Immaturity and lack of professionalism is everywhere. You can't change it by tattle tailing. Integrity? Sure, maybe the right thing to do sometimes is to just do your job; not police everyone else and try to "change" EMS. I can already hear the "just because thats the way it's always been done... etc etc" and "this is how we make EMS better...etc, etc." There are much bigger fish to fry. And let us not forget that in most cases you get what you pay for: 20somethings making $10.25 an hour aren't always going to be your cream of the crop employees. Is that a catch-all to be careless and unprofessional? No it is absolutely not, but you trying to bring about change to your corner of the world in that manner is only going to result in you making enemies and make room for even newer doo-doo heads to make minimum wage in their place. Integrity, yes, it is absolutely paramount to the silent professional. Although, humility is as well. We have all been that guy who made a mistake (and will again)- if you claim not to then you are lying. Constructive criticism and positive dialogue are alternatives that are going to be a much better tool to change your partners behavior and "change EMS for the better" than to immediately go running off to tell on them for something that may be petty. A degree of discretion is required for knowing when something is serious enough to warrant immediately notifying a supervisor or when to have a heart-to-heart with the person you spend half of your life with. Integrity? Sure, but how about trust? How about breeding professionalism by being a professional?
My opinion is this: there is a time and place for everything. Including a time to try to reinforce ideals with positive criticism and trying to instill professionalism and values onto your partner/colleagues. There is also a time when going up the chain of command is appropriate.
My comments may have appeared to make me out to be sometime of "paragod" EMT whisperer who doesn't make mistakes and/or does whatever I feel like and walk around looking like a scumbag while being able to talk sense into everyone I encounter on my own. I'm sorry for your misconception, if you had one. I too share the sentiment that you must look the part, and act the part- I'm shaved, boots shined up, neatly put together, and self aware that I represent us all every day I come to work and even while I'm off. My character and moral compass point North, but I am also self aware of the grey area that is life. I have nothing against giving a colleague a hard time when I pass them in the ER hallway or in the ready room when they look as sloppy as the transient I just brought in for chronic sandwich withdrawal. That doesn't mean I am going to go outside and call the supervisor; especially if it's reoccurring as I believe if I see it everyday then so do the supervisors. Therefore if they are incapable of doing their job of policing the lazy bums or trouble makers on the job then who am I to make waves- I'm just going to get my paycheck and go home. I'm referring to "private" organizations and "stepping stone" agencies; generally fire has (or appears to have) less of these types of issues. It is what it is. Does it upset me sometimes? Absolutely, I'd like to be viewed as a professional and I know that there are doo-doo heads out there making us look bad. This is becoming a rant incorporating too many issues and facets of the problem areas of EMS, so I apologize for the tangent. I'm just trying to stem the "well what about when _____" comments and rebuttals. You can't change the world... Not that way any how.
As I said, there is a time and place for everything. And while my inciting poll only added fuel to the heated debate- it did accomplish my point. No one likes "that guy!" No one will trust you. If it is an issue of extreme consequence where the majority of rational others would do the same thing, then I have no issue, and likely the person reporting the improper incident wouldn't become a pariah.
For instance:
If you are texting and driving- I'm going to say something to you.
Immediately. Then, when were alone I'm going to explain the reasons why up to and including "because I'm in charge of this rig, and if you want this to stay between us then correct it" before I go higher up.
For instance:
If I see you smack some dementia patient in the rearview mirror then there's no time for talking to you. There's no diplomatic constructive talking about that. You burn your options down, and I will gladly "drop the hammer" on you. But only for something extremely serious, otherwise that's just shady to me, to not first voice your discontent for something minor.
Necessity... Discretion... Professionalism... Integrity... Trust... Partnership...
All these things tie together in the workplace and in your life outside of this job. If doing the "right thing" is placing yourself in a crappy position with your co-workers (who arguably put you in that position in the first place) then maybe you should seek some alternative options to resolve your unfortunate situation.
That's just me... Maybe I'm wrong. I can at least admit that, and acknowledge that my outlook may be part of your perception of the "problem." Although, as I've been stating the entire time I believe we have bigger issues than trying to one-up and tattle on each other.
That is to say that sometimes the motive for reporting may be a righteous one.... Sometimes it is just to be a nagging, cowardice, butt head, whining, wanna-be try-hard supervisor. (I am not claiming that was the OP's motive, just stating the obvious possibilities in general.)
For me, "snitching" is a last resort among many, many more efficient options.
For the sake of my own integrity as a man.
I'd also like to address the bully thing. It's out of hand...my response is tailored to my interpretation that you are saying calling someone a rat is bullying. These days kids (and people in general) are treated too sensitive, and while I don't condone shoving other people in lockers or toilets, I don't have an anti-bullying t-shirt either. Being overly protective of kids/young adults does nothing beneficial to prepare them for the rigorous stressors and social encounters they are no doubt going to have. "Phrases" should not be deemed as conduits for "socially accepted" bullying. In life sometimes grown ups' opinions hurt other grown ups' feelings, and that's just the way it is. Big boy rules should apply, and folks should find healthy ways to deal with that.
Or I could have completely misinterpreted what you said, in which case I apologize. Regardless, that is a completely different topic for an entirely different thread.
On this topic, I acknowledge your opposing opinions and outlooks, even though I strongly disagree with some of them. Respectfully, there are some of you I hope to never work with, on the off chance I do a rolling stop or don't hit the yelp soon enough at an intersection. I'm sure the feeling may be mutual, and that's okay. Different strokes for different folks. My rant is over, and I will no longer comment on the issue. Thanks for listening though.
No one has "scared" anyone off; there are just certain things people won't agree on. Frankly, I'm tired of the back and forth debate where no one is going to change their mind. Look at politics- a bunch of adults hashing things out like grown ups right? Yeah, not so much. Immaturity and lack of professionalism is everywhere. You can't change it by tattle tailing. Integrity? Sure, maybe the right thing to do sometimes is to just do your job; not police everyone else and try to "change" EMS. I can already hear the "just because thats the way it's always been done... etc etc" and "this is how we make EMS better...etc, etc." There are much bigger fish to fry. And let us not forget that in most cases you get what you pay for: 20somethings making $10.25 an hour aren't always going to be your cream of the crop employees. Is that a catch-all to be careless and unprofessional? No it is absolutely not, but you trying to bring about change to your corner of the world in that manner is only going to result in you making enemies and make room for even newer doo-doo heads to make minimum wage in their place. Integrity, yes, it is absolutely paramount to the silent professional. Although, humility is as well. We have all been that guy who made a mistake (and will again)- if you claim not to then you are lying. Constructive criticism and positive dialogue are alternatives that are going to be a much better tool to change your partners behavior and "change EMS for the better" than to immediately go running off to tell on them for something that may be petty. A degree of discretion is required for knowing when something is serious enough to warrant immediately notifying a supervisor or when to have a heart-to-heart with the person you spend half of your life with. Integrity? Sure, but how about trust? How about breeding professionalism by being a professional?
My opinion is this: there is a time and place for everything. Including a time to try to reinforce ideals with positive criticism and trying to instill professionalism and values onto your partner/colleagues. There is also a time when going up the chain of command is appropriate.
My comments may have appeared to make me out to be sometime of "paragod" EMT whisperer who doesn't make mistakes and/or does whatever I feel like and walk around looking like a scumbag while being able to talk sense into everyone I encounter on my own. I'm sorry for your misconception, if you had one. I too share the sentiment that you must look the part, and act the part- I'm shaved, boots shined up, neatly put together, and self aware that I represent us all every day I come to work and even while I'm off. My character and moral compass point North, but I am also self aware of the grey area that is life. I have nothing against giving a colleague a hard time when I pass them in the ER hallway or in the ready room when they look as sloppy as the transient I just brought in for chronic sandwich withdrawal. That doesn't mean I am going to go outside and call the supervisor; especially if it's reoccurring as I believe if I see it everyday then so do the supervisors. Therefore if they are incapable of doing their job of policing the lazy bums or trouble makers on the job then who am I to make waves- I'm just going to get my paycheck and go home. I'm referring to "private" organizations and "stepping stone" agencies; generally fire has (or appears to have) less of these types of issues. It is what it is. Does it upset me sometimes? Absolutely, I'd like to be viewed as a professional and I know that there are doo-doo heads out there making us look bad. This is becoming a rant incorporating too many issues and facets of the problem areas of EMS, so I apologize for the tangent. I'm just trying to stem the "well what about when _____" comments and rebuttals. You can't change the world... Not that way any how.
As I said, there is a time and place for everything. And while my inciting poll only added fuel to the heated debate- it did accomplish my point. No one likes "that guy!" No one will trust you. If it is an issue of extreme consequence where the majority of rational others would do the same thing, then I have no issue, and likely the person reporting the improper incident wouldn't become a pariah.
For instance:
If you are texting and driving- I'm going to say something to you.
Immediately. Then, when were alone I'm going to explain the reasons why up to and including "because I'm in charge of this rig, and if you want this to stay between us then correct it" before I go higher up.
For instance:
If I see you smack some dementia patient in the rearview mirror then there's no time for talking to you. There's no diplomatic constructive talking about that. You burn your options down, and I will gladly "drop the hammer" on you. But only for something extremely serious, otherwise that's just shady to me, to not first voice your discontent for something minor.
Necessity... Discretion... Professionalism... Integrity... Trust... Partnership...
All these things tie together in the workplace and in your life outside of this job. If doing the "right thing" is placing yourself in a crappy position with your co-workers (who arguably put you in that position in the first place) then maybe you should seek some alternative options to resolve your unfortunate situation.
That's just me... Maybe I'm wrong. I can at least admit that, and acknowledge that my outlook may be part of your perception of the "problem." Although, as I've been stating the entire time I believe we have bigger issues than trying to one-up and tattle on each other.
That is to say that sometimes the motive for reporting may be a righteous one.... Sometimes it is just to be a nagging, cowardice, butt head, whining, wanna-be try-hard supervisor. (I am not claiming that was the OP's motive, just stating the obvious possibilities in general.)
For me, "snitching" is a last resort among many, many more efficient options.
For the sake of my own integrity as a man.
I'd also like to address the bully thing. It's out of hand...my response is tailored to my interpretation that you are saying calling someone a rat is bullying. These days kids (and people in general) are treated too sensitive, and while I don't condone shoving other people in lockers or toilets, I don't have an anti-bullying t-shirt either. Being overly protective of kids/young adults does nothing beneficial to prepare them for the rigorous stressors and social encounters they are no doubt going to have. "Phrases" should not be deemed as conduits for "socially accepted" bullying. In life sometimes grown ups' opinions hurt other grown ups' feelings, and that's just the way it is. Big boy rules should apply, and folks should find healthy ways to deal with that.
Or I could have completely misinterpreted what you said, in which case I apologize. Regardless, that is a completely different topic for an entirely different thread.
On this topic, I acknowledge your opposing opinions and outlooks, even though I strongly disagree with some of them. Respectfully, there are some of you I hope to never work with, on the off chance I do a rolling stop or don't hit the yelp soon enough at an intersection. I'm sure the feeling may be mutual, and that's okay. Different strokes for different folks. My rant is over, and I will no longer comment on the issue. Thanks for listening though.
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mycrofft
Still crazy but elsewhere
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Man, tell me you didn't do that on a pocket wireless device!!!!!
A clarification on (at least, MY) comment about "bullying". I was thinking about and referring to when someone does something which is against the mores of that group (for instance, telling a supervisor a co-worker is being unsafe), then usually one alpha-member of this group declares it to be "Ratting", "Snitching", "Narcing", etc. to rally group cohesion and declare this person and actions outside their set of mores.
Alternatives are for admin to get rid of alpha member (Wolves do that), or admin to weed out and fire the alpha's supporters and replace them publicly and stating "no more of this", or for the "narc" to tell this bunch of losers to shove it and go get a better job elsewhere.
A clarification on (at least, MY) comment about "bullying". I was thinking about and referring to when someone does something which is against the mores of that group (for instance, telling a supervisor a co-worker is being unsafe), then usually one alpha-member of this group declares it to be "Ratting", "Snitching", "Narcing", etc. to rally group cohesion and declare this person and actions outside their set of mores.
Alternatives are for admin to get rid of alpha member (Wolves do that), or admin to weed out and fire the alpha's supporters and replace them publicly and stating "no more of this", or for the "narc" to tell this bunch of losers to shove it and go get a better job elsewhere.
Truer words were never spoken.
You continually use this as an excuse for your behavior. Why is that? Why don't you strive to be better?
You've said before that you do not want to make a career out of EMS and plan on leaving. Perhaps you should speed up those plans.
VA Transport EMT
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QftIf you hadn't documented it, it wouldn't have happened.
Qft
Nope I'm still here.
Just an update, he didn't lose his job but he has to turn his phone into dispatch before every call
SandpitMedic
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I'll take the bait.
First of all, you don't even know me,Sir.. My behavior? Excuses? What are you talking about? You know what they say about assumptions, right? My conduct and professionalism on the job are just fine; thank you for your concern. I have advanced up the ladder and my finances are quite nice (for my needs) these days, but I have not forgotten where I came from. I will continue to advocate for my brothers and sisters who are compensated at rates far below their worth. Don't get that confused for making excuses for myself or for them.
You continue to live in fantasy land apparently, where working a regular 3/4 schedule at $9.00 an hour is enough to reasonably live comfortably, provide for or build a family with tiny humans, not buy garbage food off of dollar menus constantly, etc etc. Let alone have some extra bread and butter or take a trip.
All while being employed as a professional with (by your own admission) exceptionally high standards and responsibilities above that of your average human. Along with excessive liability, and at potentially high risks to our own health and safety.
Don't get it twisted. Everyone starts somewhere, but the EMS bottom (or even middle too) shouldn't be the economic equivalent of the bottom of the Grand Canyon.
Perhaps you have again demonstrated that you don't know me, nor understand the context of my words. Also, that nice little polite jab is unnecessary, but I'm not offended... Sticks and stones love, sticks and stones.
First of all, you don't even know me,Sir.. My behavior? Excuses? What are you talking about? You know what they say about assumptions, right? My conduct and professionalism on the job are just fine; thank you for your concern. I have advanced up the ladder and my finances are quite nice (for my needs) these days, but I have not forgotten where I came from. I will continue to advocate for my brothers and sisters who are compensated at rates far below their worth. Don't get that confused for making excuses for myself or for them.
You continue to live in fantasy land apparently, where working a regular 3/4 schedule at $9.00 an hour is enough to reasonably live comfortably, provide for or build a family with tiny humans, not buy garbage food off of dollar menus constantly, etc etc. Let alone have some extra bread and butter or take a trip.
All while being employed as a professional with (by your own admission) exceptionally high standards and responsibilities above that of your average human. Along with excessive liability, and at potentially high risks to our own health and safety.
Don't get it twisted. Everyone starts somewhere, but the EMS bottom (or even middle too) shouldn't be the economic equivalent of the bottom of the Grand Canyon.
Perhaps you have again demonstrated that you don't know me, nor understand the context of my words. Also, that nice little polite jab is unnecessary, but I'm not offended... Sticks and stones love, sticks and stones.
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SandpitMedic
Crowd pleaser
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Can we RIP this thread yet Mods? Please. Nothing of value can be added to topic at this point IMO. Not to mention the direction it's headed away from the topic.
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NomadicMedic
I know a guy who knows a guy.
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And we're done.
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