Ranks of Volunteer Firefighters Plummeting in USA

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Ranks of Volunteer Firefighters Plummeting Nationwide

Updated: 11-07-2005 10:15:35 AM

RICK HAMPSON
USA TODAY



PENN TOWNSHIP, Pa. -- It took 26 fire companies from three counties last year to fight the fire at Dino's Grille, a two-story wood structure that ignited on a hot Tuesday morning in this town outside Harrisburg. The local volunteer chief still fumes just thinking about it.
When Monte Supko arrived at the scene, he signaled other volunteer departments in the area for help. He needed firefighters. But what he got, mostly, was firetrucks -- many with only one or two people aboard.

By the time sufficient help was assembled and the fire extinguished, Dino's was a smoking wreck. "A parade of half-million-dollar firetrucks didn't help much," he says. "I got mad, because we've waited so long to address the problem."

The problem is this: The volunteer fire company, an institution that dates to Ben Franklin, is slowly going the way of the horse-drawn pumper.
Blame it on the changes in society: longer commutes, two-income households, year-round youth sports, chain stores that won't release workers at midday to jump on a firetruck. Blame it on new folks in town who don't even know the department is volunteer. Blame it on stricter training requirements and fewer big fires and the lure of paying fire jobs in the cities.

There is no greater, longer-running expression of volunteerism in U.S. history than the volunteer fire service, which still saves taxpayers billions of dollars each year. Almost three-fourths of the nation's 1.1. million firefighters are volunteers, and two-thirds of all fire departments are volunteer.

In many communities, the volunteer fire company is a social and civic anchor. Members organize the Fourth of July parade and hang the holiday decorations on Main Street. The volunteer firehouse is the scene of scout meetings, wedding receptions, service club luncheons and knitting bees. It's a place to vote, drink, or hang out.

But even though emergency calls are up, the number of volunteer firefighters has dropped nationally more than 10% over the past two decades. The decline is particularly steep in the Northeast. Pennsylvania, which had about 300,000 volunteers three decades ago, is down to 72,000. New York state, which had 140,000 15 years ago, now has 96,000.

The kinds of volunteers who used to be able to cover weekday calls -- farmers, shop owners, factory shift workers -- are becoming as rare as a firehouse Dalmatian.

Supko remembers when his fire company got a new member a month; there wasn't enough room on its firetrucks for everyone. Now, he says, "nobody wants to join."

The department, which counted 30 active firefighters in the 1970s, is down to fewer than 20. A program to groom high school students has five members, a third of what it used to. It's an issue of time: potential volunteers have less, and firefighting requires more.

<Snip>

"We have to let people know how dangerous this situation is," he says. "We're asking for some help." By that he means money, possibly credits or pensions for volunteers.

But it may be too late for the volunteer fire company as a social institution. "It was the blue-collar country club," says McNally. "You could shoot a little pool and have a beer. It's a relic of a simpler time. But society has changed. The world has changed."

Rest HERE: Firehouse.com - Free
 
blame it on Big Brother & friends, nobody gave the rescue biz the time of day until they started to intervene with thier unfunded federal mandates.

and as anyone that's been to N.I.M.S. can see, we're slowly approaching that 'Hitler Youth' feel

~S~
 
If you want to place blame, point the finger at Old Man Time.

Firefighters can't just learn how to roll hose and squirt water anymore, they have to be trained to a certain standard. Many people can't do this, because they just don't have the time. But that is too gee-dee bad, because with out training, people die.

From a local stand point...

Penna. has the highest number of volunteer firefighters, the highest number of volunteer fire companies, and the highest number of volunteer ambulances. We always have, and we always will. There are more volunteer fire companies in PA than any other state, or any single country on the face of the earth.

Also true, there are more volunteer firefighters killed in the line of duty in PA that any other state or single country.

That is not how it has always been, and it should never happen again.

How does time cause this?

The majority of PA Firefighters are over the age of 50. Lots of young ones kill too, Junior Firefighters that is.

Why?

LACK OF TRAINING - LACK OF PLANNING - LACK OF LEADERSHIP

Also contributing is Lack of Funding for *health programs, new Personal Protection Gear, new SCBA units, 'modern' apparatus, modern fire appliances i.e. hose, nozzles, tools, etc.

Lack of Time... People can't train, so they don't stick around b/c they can't do anything.

SR-60 is what we need. It will give every volunteer firefighter and EMT a tax break, it will give them the funding we need, and it will give them the opportunity to train with facilities that we need. I read the whole proposal, as I had a little time to do that this week.

This will save the Volunteer fire service.
 
1 state of the art engine (and rescue) 5 person, 1 High end off the shelf tanker (with preconnect, pump to supply, etc.), 1 nice for what it is grass rig, 1 ambulance (type III), 10 truly active members (15 on the roster- ha!). 6 blown calls this year ( rolling the grass rig to an ems call since only 1 shows up doesnt count).
 
Originally posted by TTLWHKR+Nov 10 2005, 02:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TTLWHKR @ Nov 10 2005, 02:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Stevo@Nov 9 2005, 09:17 PM

is this a PA bill TTLWHKR?
I guess, not sure... [/b][/quote]
Senate Resolution


Jon
 
QUOTE (TTLWHKR @ Nov 10 2005, 02:21 PM)
QUOTE (Stevo @ Nov 9 2005, 09:17 PM)
QUOTE
SR-60



is this a PA bill TTLWHKR?


I guess, not sure...


Senate Resolution


Jon

State or Federal?

~S~
 
Originally posted by Stevo@Nov 11 2005, 07:50 AM
QUOTE (TTLWHKR @ Nov 10 2005, 02:21 PM)
QUOTE (Stevo @ Nov 9 2005, 09:17 PM)
QUOTE 
SR-60



is this a PA bill TTLWHKR? 


I guess, not sure... 


Senate Resolution


Jon

State or Federal?

~S~
PA State
 
How about spending those "millions" of dollars on rigs and paying for professinal firefighters... whenever I see a Freightliner ambulance ona Vollie rig I thnk.. geez there goes 4 FTO salary ...

Be safe,
Ridryder 911
 
Originally posted by ridryder 911@Nov 11 2005, 09:55 AM
How about spending those "millions" of dollars on rigs and paying for professinal firefighters... whenever I see a Freightliner ambulance ona Vollie rig I thnk.. geez there goes 4 FTO salary ...

Be safe,
Ridryder 911
.......for one year. You can pay several firefighter/EMT's for one year (mabye) with those funds. But guess what- those funds were either saved over years of fish fry and chili supper events, or they were a one time FEMA grant. When you have 200 runs a year, it is hard to justify to the trustee or commision that you need a full time fire/ ems crews salaries. Guess what, that crews salary is x3. So $55,000 (this includes bene's, employer load-additional taxes workmans comp etc./ stuff that no one thinks about) x 2 personnel per shift x 3 shifts=$330,000 per year. Our department's allotment from the trustee is $60,000 plus whatever we make from boot drive and fish fry. That would leave about $230,000 unfunded. Our state of the art engine cost $275,000, and it is our primary piece of apparatus. Or bus cost about $80,000. These apparatus will last 8-10 years hopefully, and together they cost not much more than 1 years salary for one crew. I said one crew- not an entire response. $330,000 to fund one full time crew- which would still have to be bolstered by ranks of volunteers in and MVC or fire or HAZMAT incident.

If, based on the statistics that Jon quoted, we were to start paying even half those volunteers it would cost nearly $22.7 billion (1.1 milX.75X.5X55,000). I am not sure where you think that money would come from, but property taxes are already entirely too high, and I can't afford to work for a FD yet, due to all those little costs associated with life that the government already jacks up by taking their cut (when the wife gets her B.S. she can support my habit).

Volunteer fire departments are not the same modified straight truck or stripped down fire truck and a redlighted pick-up bunch of red-necks that they used to be. Our department has state of the art equipment, abides by and trains on all state and federal standards. They use SOP's based on the idea of liability. Our ambulance doesn't roll unless there is a hospital approved EMT-B or higher on board. No-one with less than FF2 can go into a structure fire without a FTO or safety officer with them and commands approval. If cleared people aren't there, the apparatus does't go. No probies roll apparatus. 24 hours means you can watch- it used to mean you were a FF. No smoking on fire grounds, no unnecessary radio traffic. HIPPA is strictly enforced. Etc., etc., etc.

Our best EMT works at a power co. Our best FF's either aren't career anywhere else, or got on a career dept. because they were as good as they are. Being paid only means you get paid. Being professional means you take pride in your work and you try to improve through observation and training. There are plenty of paid personnel I wouldn't let volunteer for us for fear that our reputation would be harmed, of course there are plenty of volunteers that fit that bill as well.

Paid or not, the standards are the same, or at least close in our area. If money is a persons motivation to do something, then they should do something that does not affect somebodies well being.
 
How about spending those "millions" of dollars on rigs and paying for professinal firefighters... whenever I see a Freightliner ambulance ona Vollie rig I thnk.. geez there goes 4 FTO salary ...

really?

well then i feel it necessary to imform you that your entire carear was built on the backs of vollies in America, right on back to Ben Franklin & co.

but then, good minons of the motu (masters of the universe) really haven't a handle on the historic implications and/or events that may have garnered them a position workin' for 'Da Man' , and generally lack any respect don't they?

i suppose that's just the way it is, but as a closing thought here i'll remind you that your by far and large outnumbered by vollies in America.

In fact American townships (by far out populated in numbers than megalopolis) move via vollies

and i'm not just taking ere's here either, there's plenty more than just that keeping us ticking along, think we can assume a FTO for all the above?

Funny how quickly people wearing all the bling bling and cha cha forget who's got their backs eh?

~S~
 
Originally posted by Stevo@Nov 11 2005, 02:30 PM


well then i feel it necessary to imform you that your entire carear was built on the backs of vollies in America, right on back to Ben Franklin & co.

Wrong. The most common mistake in fire history is the assumption that Union Fire Co. was the first to be established.

1642: New Amsterdam (NYC) First Vol. Fire Co.

1742: Ben Franklin's Union Fire Co. was the first volunteer fire company....in Pennsylvania, disbanded in 1882.

1752: Oldest Vol. Fire Co. to be continuously active
Relief Fire Co. No. 1 of Mount Holly, Nj.

1853: First Paid fire dept., Cincinatti, Ohio

I stole this info from another fire forum.
 
Originally posted by hfdff422+Nov 11 2005, 10:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hfdff422 @ Nov 11 2005, 10:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-ridryder 911@Nov 11 2005, 09:55 AM
How about spending those "millions" of dollars on rigs and paying for professinal firefighters... whenever I see a Freightliner ambulance ona Vollie rig I thnk.. geez there goes 4 FTO salary ...

Be safe,
Ridryder 911
.......If, based on the statistics that Jon quoted, we were to start paying even half those volunteers it would cost nearly $22.7 billion (1.1 milX.75X.5X55,000). I am not sure where you think that money would come from, but property taxes are already entirely too high, and I can't afford to work for a FD yet, due to all those little costs associated with life that the government already jacks up by taking their cut (when the wife gets her B.S. she can support my habit).

Volunteer fire departments are not the same modified straight truck or stripped down fire truck and a redlighted pick-up bunch of red-necks that they used to be. Our department has state of the art equipment, abides by and trains on all state and federal standards. They use SOP's based on the idea of liability. Our ambulance doesn't roll unless there is a hospital approved EMT-B or higher on board. No-one with less than FF2 can go into a structure fire without a FTO or safety officer with them and commands approval. If cleared people aren't there, the apparatus does't go. No probies roll apparatus. 24 hours means you can watch- it used to mean you were a FF. No smoking on fire grounds, no unnecessary radio traffic. HIPPA is strictly enforced. Etc., etc., etc.

Our best EMT works at a power co. Our best FF's either aren't career anywhere else, or got on a career dept. because they were as good as they are. Being paid only means you get paid. Being professional means you take pride in your work and you try to improve through observation and training. There are plenty of paid personnel I wouldn't let volunteer for us for fear that our reputation would be harmed, of course there are plenty of volunteers that fit that bill as well.

Paid or not, the standards are the same, or at least close in our area. If money is a persons motivation to do something, then they should do something that does not affect somebodies well being.[/b][/quote]

WOW! I am glad most cities here do not use those equations... I have never used that type in the past 20 years as a professional EMS consultant either... Whomever you used, I would highly suggest another one... there is no Fire Department inlcuding some largest ones here that has >200,00 people and average >10 fire responses a day that has a budget like that you proposed. For a volume of 200 calls a year, ( which is just less than 1 a day).
No, I understand most do not have the have the "redneck" mentality either. Neither do we with one of the 2 largest university in Fire Science and publications. (Oklahoma State University & International Fire Service Training (IFSTA) )

This still does not disallow lowering or decreasing the educational standards of EMS or even the Fire Service. Medicine is medicine, no matter what the population or run volume may be. There are alternative routes for voulunteers such as contracting with private services, combining districts, and making sure billing collection is above 80 %.

I do understand the problems of recruiting volunteers, I was a Chief at a volunteer F.D at one time. With this saying, tradition and a lot "good ole boys" club also comes in mind. With the day of increasing business of everybody and the overwhelming increasing knowledge now required for firefighters & EMS, it is now almost impossible to be associated in this at a volunteer business. The same as with other professions, that now require full time professionals. As other business has had to do , communities will have to learn to adapt if they want coverage .

The reason my distaste is due to the volunteer EMS has caused the re-directing of EMT education in the early 90's and now the proposed Scope of Practice model. No other part of medicine basis it's treatment and restricition of care based upon the lack of staff available, as much as EMS. This is a shame.. and carelessness on our part.

Rspectfuly,
Ridryder 911
 
QUOTE (Stevo @ Nov 11 2005, 02:30 PM)


well then i feel it necessary to imform you that your entire carear was built on the backs of vollies in America, right on back to Ben Franklin & co.




Wrong. The most common mistake in fire history is the assumption that Union Fire Co. was the first to be established.

perhaps my dates are not precise TTLWHKR, but the sentiment still stands

and yes, one could pose a good arguement in any community that is volunteer these days as to going full time. the 'good 'ol boys' and 'redneck' insinuations geared to make vollies appear incompitent to serve are merely one carnard used

scare tactics are commonly used to justify full time appointees, along with equipment etc , this is exactly why we are a police state now , and have the highest amount of incarcerations among the first world

what really happened to the emergency response service? well ems wasn't taken seriously at first, but then it grew into a moneymaker, so all manner of parasitic interest came our way.

those of us in the biz have been subjected to enough beuracracy over the years to know that much is simply keeping some goverment agency in business. those of us that have seen various beuracratic factions vie for control of issues know that the end user really isn't helped in his/her roll

one thing i do know for sure is, vollies have more heart in their pinky finger than in all the FTO's your community can afford to pitch for, this was the good nieghbor biz when it started and the best that serve in it still hold that ideal dear

~S~
 
Originally posted by ridryder 911@Nov 11 2005, 05:27 PM
The reason my distaste is due to the volunteer EMS has caused the re-directing of EMT education in the early 90's and now the proposed Scope of Practice model. No other part of medicine basis it's treatment and restricition of care based upon the lack of staff available, as much as EMS. This is a shame.. and carelessness on our part.
Why?

What exactly are you referring to?

Thanks,

Jon
 
Originally posted by MedicStudentJon+Nov 11 2005, 07:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MedicStudentJon @ Nov 11 2005, 07:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ridryder 911@Nov 11 2005, 05:27 PM
The reason my distaste is due to the volunteer EMS has caused the re-directing of EMT education in the early 90's and now the proposed Scope of Practice model. No other part of medicine basis it's treatment and restricition of care based upon the lack of staff available, as much as EMS. This is a shame.. and carelessness on our part.
Why?

What exactly are you referring to?

Thanks,

Jon [/b][/quote]
He just liked to piss in the cheerios...

It's like shattering a window because you don't want to take the time to clean it. Throw some hot words on a smoldering conversation to get it burning hot.
 
Or maybe we're placing blame for the 'Dumbing down of Ems' , which seemed to be what many in the biz dubbed the last cric ?

~S~
 
Originally posted by ridryder 911@Nov 11 2005, 05:27 PM


.......If, based on the statistics that Jon quoted, we were to start paying even half those volunteers it would cost nearly $22.7 billion (1.1 milX.75X.5X55,000).
I would like to know what the pay model looks like for fire or ems personnel then. BTW, private firms will not contract for our area, which includes 4 townships (5 fire departments) due to it not being profitable (1200 runs per year for all 5).

My calculation was based on a cost of $55,000 per full time carrer postion. A $40,000 base salary, $6,000 for medical/dental, $1,000 for annual uniform allowance, $3,000 for PERF payments, $4000 for tax and workman's compensation payments (employer load) $1000 for equipment maintenace. All of which are reasonable estimates. Then I used Jon's numbers of 75% of 1.1 million, took 50% of the 75% and used that as the future carrer postions, then multiplied by the estimated salaries. Which was approximately 22.7 billion dollars. These are just estimates obviously.

In the area I volunteer in, our standards are ever increasing for all levels of EMS, requiring new and lengthening trainings and more rigorous testing, volunteer or not. By far the most incompetent EMS providers I have ever met was a paid ambulance crew. There are varying levels of competency throughout every type of provider service. Keeping the volunteer EMT-B or EMT-I postions out of reach will either destroy viable emergency services or deplete public funds, there is no way to get around that. If you think you have a way, feel free to spell out a detailed model.

Oh, and those 200 runs a year, those people that have the emergency don't care if I am getting paid or not, they are real glad to see me. They are going to get the fire put out, get removed from the MVC, or get taken to the hospital just as quickly and professionally as the EMT's and FF's from the "city" would do.
 
Ridryder, after rereading your post for the third time, that $22.7 billion is for the entire country. I reffered to Jons numbers of 1.1 million which is nationally. See my previous post.
 
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