Premeds I want to hear your story.

[LanceCorpsman]

@Gurby I will definitely start using Anki. I definitely have the issue of forgetting a lot of information over the summer...

 

[SandpitMedic]

I enjoy this thread. Like minded folks pursuing higher education.
I dig it. Most in EMS

 

[SpecialK]

There have been one or two ambulance personnel who have left to pursue their medical degree.

I know one applied as a graduate (i.e. using their BHSc Paramedic degree) and another who went via traditional first-year entry.

It's a big decision to take five or six years out of your life to requalify in something, but the benefits are well worth it.

 

[Chris07]

I'm mid-application cycle as well. Thus far, 2 interview invites, 2 pre-interview waitlists (from 2 the most competitive schools on my list), 1 flat out rejection, and 5 schools still pending decision. This is getting interesting. Waiting is half the fun!

I was a senior year change of heart. Got my degree in computer science but stalled out my last two classes until I got my pre-reqs done and the school told me I needed to graduate after 7 years of undergrad.

 

[rescue1]

I'm a first year medical student at a DO school who spent about 5 years in EMS beforehand.

I did volunteer EMS while in undergrad, which was for a humanities degree which I half assed. The volunteer experience let me go straight to 911 when I graduated, then I got hired by a fire department, then decided I liked the medical stuff more, went back to school for a year to take all my science courses (I had taken exactly 1 in undergrad), then spent two more years working 911 EMS, then I applied and got in. Medicine was never on my radar until I was in fire academy, fuming that we were still being taught to give high flow oxygen to all patients.

As far as competitiveness, it is very competitive. I'm in a DO school, which tends to have slightly less competitive entrance requirements than an MD program, but our average MCAT is a 30 something, and most of the class went to big name universities and did fairly well there. You're going to want to aim for a minimum 3.5 GPA in your science courses and preferably higher. Don't get complacent looking at entrance stats for easy schools--you want to get in on the first try and you want to have options. You mentioned OHSU having a high acceptance rate, remember that with that acceptance rate they have an average science GPA of 3.6 and an MCAT of 32, so that's some tough competition. EMS work experience definitely helps, especially if you highlight that you did this as a full time job and have real experience. Med school is filled with people who got their EMT and spent a month riding as a 3rd on an ambulance or scribing in the ED, so professional EMS work will set you apart. In fact, I'm convinced it's the only reason I got into school at all.

Practice questions for the MCAT are super helpful, and make sure you apply early and broadly. It's easier and cheaper to have one big application cycle than to have a small one followed by a big one next year.

Finally don't rule out DO schools, but remember that if you want to do a very competitive speciality (like most of the surgical specialties, dermatology, etc) you'll be at a pretty big disadvantage, as those programs tend to like pedigree. That doesn't really bother me, wanting to stick with emergency medicine, but it's something to consider.

Let me know if you have any more questions, I'm currently avoiding studying for 4 different exams.

 

[LanceCorpsman]

@rescue1 I am not really worried about my GPA, it is the MCAT that I am worried about since i honestly dont know what to expect. My plan is to apply to med school if and when I get a 509+

You mentioned DO school, I understand they are not as competitive. You mentioned for residencies that competitive ones were difficult to get. Is EM in that list as well? I don't see too many ED docs who are DOs.

 

[rescue1]

Do MCAT practice questions and tests. They can give you a good feel of where you are in the material.

EM is easier to do as an MD but it's very doable as a DO. Where I worked in the Philadelphia area, I'd say about half the docs were DOs, but I think there are less DOs on the West Coast. You may have trouble at some big name or Ivy League EM residencies, but luckily that won't effect your job prospects or even your ability to work in academics. My school puts about 10 students into EM a year out of about 140, which looks like its pretty par for the course for most schools of both type.

 

[Chris07]

Once you graduate and are licensed, where you went to school becomes irrelevant. Other doctors don't care. You are judged by your ability not where you trained. Location and school prestige is not really important except that it looks good on paper. Crappy doctors have come out of big name prestigious schools...and great doctors have come out of no-names ones.

I'm exclusively looking at DO programs. The challenge comes now when I want to attend an allopathic (MD) residency program...I need to take two sets of board exams: the COMLEX which is the DO licensing exam and the USMLE which is the MD licensing exam. I have to put in more work but the fact that DO programs are much more forgiving of people in my position well outweighs any future cons in my mind. At this point if I wanted to become an MD I'd have to go get a masters. Even if I was willing to invest in shooting for MD, I wouldn't. The DO philosophy calls to me more.

In the Los Angeles area I've seen quite a few DO EM physicians. It's really more apparent now that I'm actively keeping an eye out for it.

As for the MCAT....oh boy.
I can't stress enough how much I don't want to have to retake it. Im not going to sugar-coat it....it's a doozy. My advice...give it 3-4 months. No more than 4 months ahead of time. With a three month timeline I was forgetting stuff I learned in the first weeks at the end. For me, 3 months worked. 2 months of solid content review and 1 month to 3 weeks of practice tests. You have to practice with full length tests. The test is too long and you are too short on time to approach it in a traditional linear manner. There is a bit of strategy involved. Knowing the format of the test is really important. I've personally never taken a test like it before. It's unique in its own way.

Word of advice. Set your test date 4-5 months ahead of time and LEAVE IT ALONE. Even with 3-4 months of prep, you will not feel completely ready for it. Suck it up and give it a shot. Don't reschedule unless there is an extenuating circumstance. That's just my advice.

Good luck!

 

[Gurby]

Once you graduate and are licensed, where you went to school becomes irrelevant. Other doctors don't care. You are judged by your ability not where you trained. Location and school prestige is not really important except that it looks good on paper. Crappy doctors have come out of big name prestigious schools...and great doctors have come out of no-names ones.

I'm exclusively looking at DO programs. The challenge comes now when I want to attend an allopathic (MD) residency program...I need to take two sets of board exams: the COMLEX which is the DO licensing exam and the USMLE which is the MD licensing exam. I have to put in more work but the fact that DO programs are much more forgiving of people in my position well outweighs any future cons in my mind. At this point if I wanted to become an MD I'd have to go get a masters. Even if I was willing to invest in shooting for MD, I wouldn't. The DO philosophy calls to me more.

In the Los Angeles area I've seen quite a few DO EM physicians. It's really more apparent now that I'm actively keeping an eye out for it.

As for the MCAT....oh boy.
I can't stress enough how much I don't want to have to retake it. Im not going to sugar-coat it....it's a doozy. My advice...give it 3-4 months. No more than 4 months ahead of time. With a three month timeline I was forgetting stuff I learned in the first weeks at the end. For me, 3 months worked. 2 months of solid content review and 1 month to 3 weeks of practice tests. You have to practice with full length tests. The test is too long and you are too short on time to approach it in a traditional linear manner. There is a bit of strategy involved. Knowing the format of the test is really important. I've personally never taken a test like it before. It's unique in its own way.

Word of advice. Set your test date 4-5 months ahead of time and LEAVE IT ALONE. Even with 3-4 months of prep, you will not feel completely ready for it. Suck it up and give it a shot. Don't reschedule unless there is an extenuating circumstance. That's just my advice.

Good luck!

Few things:

As you pointed out, MD vs DO and where you go to school does matter when it comes to getting into the residency of your choice. Some residencies literally don't even look at DO applications. Also, if you find yourself becoming interested in more competitive fields (surgical subspecialties, dermatology, etc) it helps to be coming from a well-regarded MD school. On the other hand, you will find people from unknown schools in the most prestigious residency positions... Where you go to school does matter, but it doesn't matter as much as how well you perform while you're there.

I think it's fine to spread out MCAT studying for longer than 4 months, but you need to do it the right way. My solution to forgetting things I reviewed 2 months ago, was spaced repetition ala Anki. Make cards as you go, review them every day. Easy peasy. I do think it's important that you spend the month before the test doing a lot of practice FL's and practice passages to build endurance and develop a sense for timing, so that you can tell when you're spending too much time on a difficult question and use your time as efficiently as possible to get the most points you can.

I would reschedule if you aren't scoring as high as you'd like on practice exams. This isn't a test you just "give a shot" - taking it more than once is frowned upon by schools. Consider that with Step 1, you only get one shot at it with no option to retake unless you fail. This is why it's ideal to only need 1 attempt at the MCAT.

 

[rescue1]

Once you graduate and are licensed, where you went to school becomes irrelevant. Other doctors don't care. You are judged by your ability not where you trained. Location and school prestige is not really important except that it looks good on paper. Crappy doctors have come out of big name prestigious schools...and great doctors have come out of no-names ones.

I'm exclusively looking at DO programs. The challenge comes now when I want to attend an allopathic (MD) residency program...I need to take two sets of board exams: the COMLEX which is the DO licensing exam and the USMLE which is the MD licensing exam. I have to put in more work but the fact that DO programs are much more forgiving of people in my position well outweighs any future cons in my mind. At this point if I wanted to become an MD I'd have to go get a masters. Even if I was willing to invest in shooting for MD, I wouldn't. The DO philosophy calls to me more.

While you're not completely wrong, academic medicine can be very pedigree based. As a DO, there are some programs and even specialties that are just going to be out of reach for the immediate future, even if you have a 260 Step 1 and straight honors. I don't say this to crap on DOs, since I'm in a DO school, but because I think it's important to have all the info before you apply. You are correct though that post-residency, no one is going to care.

And for what it's worth, the "osteopathic philosophy", at least at my school, is pretty much BS. All med schools are jumping on the holistic train these days.

Again, I don't want to dissuade people from applying to DO schools, but you need to do it with an acceptance of the handicap that it is. Do I like my school? Yes. Would I have gone to one of the MD schools nearby if I'd been competitive there? Absolutely.

 

[FLdoc2011]

Yea that's a whole other debate but in general yes, there are still some "prestigious" residencies that will not accept a DO, truth be told however they likely would still look down on a lower-tier MD school grad as well so they're competitive for everyone.

That said, AOA programs are currently undergoing a merger and over the next few years will all be under ACGME. Ultimately how this will affect competitive spots and board certification I don't think anyone really knows yet. I'm sure some small AOA programs will have to close due to financial limitations and resources they may not have to become ACGME-accredited, but hopefully a single GME system will help equalize things a bit more.

 

[LanceCorpsman]

What do you guys recommend doing for the CARS portion?

 

[Chris07]

I took TPR review course to guide most of my studying. I used their strategy very heavily. That and lots and lots of practice passages.

 

[Medico]

Ive noticed some of you on the forum are trying to become doctors. What is your story? Why do you want to become a doctor? Has being in EMS influenced your choice of becoming a doctor?
Also, if you still work and go to school (undergrad), how do you balance the two?

I thought I'd weigh in since it was a year ago I was asking the exact same questions.

I 'fell' into EMS when I was a police applicant; I just wanted to drive an ambulance to learn the city. Turned out I was good at it and really enjoyed medicine, so I continued thru paramedic. After obtaining my medic my buddy convinced me to apply for the FD where I worked for the last 4 years. I went in with a good attitude but I couldn't learn to love the job. My passion was medicine.

To me the natural progression for a medic is med/PA school. So, I talked about it with my wife who encouraged me to pursue medical school. My undergrad is in Business and associates in EMS. I applied for a Post-baccalaureate at my local university and was accepted. This will get me my science courses and a committee letter. With that acceptance I quit the FD and started working as medic at the level 1 trauma center. I did this because I make my schedule 6 weeks in advance and I work 3 days a week. I also see all the sickest patients and network with the doctors and med students.

The med students have told me that us non-traditional EMS guys do a fantastic job in school, due to our ability to simply do assessments and foundation for learning medical concepts.

I also studied allopathic and osteopathic medicine to find my fit. I will be applying exclusively to DO schools. I have found them to be more holistic in the application process and more forgiving of early academic experiences.

Good luck! Don't lose focus of your goal and remember there is a light at the end of tunnel.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Medico]

Bingo.
Thanks for the info.
Better be >3.7 science GPA or don't waste your time.

No, you do not have to be >3.7. The school your applying to plays a role. Whether or not your in-state vs out of state. Do you have research experience? What were your extracurriculars? Do you show proof of devotion to medicine? Ethnicity can play a role. Can you commit to primary care? And most importantly are you applying DO or MD or Caribbean? Is you school brand new?

I know a ton of guys with GPA of 3.3 - 3.5 who matriculated. A lot more to it than a gpa.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[SandpitMedic]

No, you do not have to be >3.7. The school your applying to plays a role. Whether or not your in-state vs out of state. Do you have research experience? What were your extracurriculars? Do you show proof of devotion to medicine? Ethnicity can play a role. Can you commit to primary care? And most importantly are you applying DO or MD or Caribbean? Is you school brand new?

I know a ton of guys with GPA of 3.3 - 3.5 who matriculated. A lot more to it than a gpa.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I'm going Carribean if I go...
Lol

 

[Gurby]

Just want to clarify, Caribbean is not a viable option in 2016 if your goal is to practice in the US. If you can't get into US MD or DO school, you should pursue something else rather than go Carib. Maybe it's a viable path if you want to practice in Europe or Australia, I'm not sure. Some people do go Carib and end up with US residencies, but it's just way too big of a risk today. 10 years ago it was a more reasonable choice, and you are likely to meet physicians who went there and say good things about it, but times have changed / are continuing to change.

In terms of getting interviews, IMO this is a rough ranking of importance of aspects of an application: MCAT > GPA > clinical exposure (shadowing and also hands-on "smell the patients" experiences) > volunteering/altruism/working with underserved/people with different backgrounds from yourself > research > leadership experience > have at least one colorful EC that you excel at and are passionate about (music, sports, whatever). For top 10 MD schools, bump research up the list 2 spots.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

A colleague of mine from Florida went to medical school in the Caribian about 10 years ago. He ended up getting meningitis and almost dying so he was not able to complete his entire MD program. However, he did complete enough to get a bachelor degree in medicine, which looks pretty cool ( and depressing) on the wall if your paramedic. The military can be another way also (but risky if you don't make the cut you could end up as something else). I also met U.S. medical students in Krakow, Poland, and Prague. They were going to school there because it was cheaper and had an easier acceptance rate. Mind you, we only met at the pub, but they claimed they would have no problem going back to the states to practice when they were done with school.

 

[Gurby]

I also met U.S. medical students in Krakow, Poland, and Prague. They were going to school there because it was cheaper and had an easier acceptance rate. Mind you, we only met at the pub, but they claimed they would have no problem going back to the states to practice when they were done with school.

Yeah, not the case. And those who do succeed in coming back for residency usually are only able to find spots in primary care in undesirable locations.

 

[Flying]

Oh my, am I reminded of this: https://the5conflicts.wordpress.com/2015/02/11/195/