Premeds I want to hear your story.

[LanceCorpsman]

Ive noticed some of you on the forum are trying to become doctors. What is your story? Why do you want to become a doctor? Has being in EMS influenced your choice of becoming a doctor?
Also, if you still work and go to school (undergrad), how do you balance the two?

 

[StCEMT]

Not premed, but PA school is on my list. I was actually planning on going on a degree track for that, but an engagement that went to **** kind of made me reevaluate life plans. I had always wanted to enlist out of high school as a medic, so I decided to go to Paramedic school and follow up on that since I let myself get talked out of that. I will have a degree and Fire & Paramedic Science, so I at least have a degree that I can put to use with what I want to do in the next few stages in life. Probably not the best choice if I wanna maximize my income, but young, dumb, single etc. so just gonna pursue what I should have 4 years ago. There are a few reasons I want PA school. 1. I know moving into a more stable and better paying job will probably be nice later in life, so I at least want to set myself up to have the opportunity. 2. I want to get involved in education for both military medics and EMS, PA school would be a nice foundation to build that off of.

So TL;DR: Sweet schedule, good money, teacher man.

 

[SandpitMedic]

Any graduate medical education is highly, highly competitive. You'll need 4.0s and years of patient contact experience, and even then you may not get selected to a medical school or PA program.
In terms of competition think 11 on a 10 scale.

 

[LanceCorpsman]

Not premed, but PA school is on my list. I was actually planning on going on a degree track for that, but an engagement that went to **** kind of made me reevaluate life plans. I had always wanted to enlist out of high school as a medic, so I decided to go to Paramedic school and follow up on that since I let myself get talked out of that. I will have a degree and Fire & Paramedic Science, so I at least have a degree that I can put to use with what I want to do in the next few stages in life. Probably not the best choice if I wanna maximize my income, but young, dumb, single etc. so just gonna pursue what I should have 4 years ago. There are a few reasons I want PA school. 1. I know moving into a more stable and better paying job will probably be nice later in life, so I at least want to set myself up to have the opportunity. 2. I want to get involved in education for both military medics and EMS, PA school would be a nice foundation to build that off of.

So TL;DR: Sweet schedule, good money, teacher man.

PA school is an awesome option. From my understanding though, the science pre-reqs are pretty similar to medical school. So id imagine you'd have to do those classes in addition to your degree.

 

[LanceCorpsman]

Any graduate medical education is highly, highly competitive. You'll need 4.0s and years of patient contact experience, and even then you may not get selected to a medical school or PA program.
In terms of competition think 11 on a 10 scale.

It certainly is competitive, but not that competitive...I don't know a single person who has a 4.0 GPA in college, although they do exist, they either go to an easy school or are just geniuses. For OHSU, the acceptance rate for in-state applicants is like 20%. Other states have similar numbers

 

[EpiEMS]

There's a ton of great data on this on the AAMC website.

For reference, I'd note that mean GPAs and MCAT scores for applicants and matriculants are markedly different (though not necessarily different with statistical significance). For mean total GPAs (all coursework, science + non-science), in the 2015-16 year applicants were at 3.55 (SD 0.34), while matriculants were at 3.77 (SD 0.25). For mean total MCAT, applicants were at 28.3 (SD 5.6) and matriculants were at 31.4 (SD 3.9).

And for what it's worth, look at this chart by major - absolutely fascinating.

From my personal perspective, coming from a medical family and having interests in public health, I always had considered medicine as a career. However, as other opportunities with lower opportunity cost and quicker upfront benefits (i.e. not waiting 12 years to make decent money) became apparent swayed me. EMS had helped - I found that I love interacting with patients for short periods, but I wouldn't stay interested for much longer than that...so I tend to think that most physician (or PA) roles would not hold my interest, and neither would nursing. Plus, I'm more of a "systems" thinker - so the business/administrative end always seemed more logical for me to consider.

 

[Gurby]

Started out undergrad as a computer science major, did an internship as a programmer and decided a career in it wasn't for me, switched majors to music. Taught lessons, performed, did academic tutoring, did a bunch of volunteer stuff - this continued for a few years. Got fed up with things, decided to get a part time job, thought being an EMT seemed cool. Became EMT, discovered interest in healthcare, became paramedic because that seemed like the logical progression. Gained more exposure to healthcare system, saw more of what other professions do, realized that actually I think I would be more fulfilled as a physician. Did post-bac science classes, took MCAT, currently in the middle of application cycle. Lots of interviews so far, still waiting on the acceptances!

 

[OnceAnEMT]

Came out of high school believing Athletic Training was the path for me after being a student athletic trainer in high school, and went to EMT school over the summer before starting undergrad just to supplement the acute care aspect of AT. Up to now and for the next few years medical school was on my mind but more as an opportunity than a path, as I knew there was a ways to go first. EMT school was my first exposure to the first responder community, and boy did it have an effect. I was introduced to the wilderness SAR community through an instructor a few months into my undergrad and that took off like a rocket after joining a volunteer team in the area. I also picked up a crumby weekend IFT job for a few months just to get a line of experience so I could work in an ER the summer after freshman year. Did that full time, then went to PRN during the school year (12 hours every 2 weeks) and back to full time for winters/summers (I just got lucky on needs/openings with this). After my sophomore year I changed majors from Athletic Training to Public Administration due to a decreasing interest in AT (everything but the medicine aspect) and an increasing interest in Emergency Management. It was also at this point that I started leaning towards medical school a bit more and set my minor as Chemistry. It wasn't until I finished organic chemistry at the end of my junior year that I stopped saying emergency management was my career path and started saying I want to be a doctor, one way or another. I am still on this track, closing my 2nd to last semester of undergrad. I washed about 30 hours worth of AT courses and had to tack on a few pre-requisites for medical schools, so I will be graduating with something like 158 credits, but I am still "on time" fortunately. I will be taking the MCAT this coming spring and applying in the summer. I will be taking a gap year and hope to work for a 911 service full time, get outside a little more, and check off a few mini-projects.

I want to be a doctor because of the privilege of being a key, trusted person in the lives of patients who may or may not be sick, therefore having a critical and unique impact on their lives. Additionally, doctors are looked up to as the leaders in medicine, with no position higher, and that is something I admire.

I wouldn't say EMS is what initially made me decide that I want to be a doctor, but it has helped solidify the fact, and it has provided an exposure to patient populations and various physician specialties that has helped steer me in my specialty preference in the event that I am fortunate enough to have to make that choice. It is fair to say that my bias is towards emergency medicine, but I have had the opportunity to see other specialties interacting with patients new and old which helps guide the decision-making process. I do plan on shadowing in the coming spring and summer, but not as intensively as many others.

I only work 12 hours every 2 weeks (on average), but also train/deploy/prepare for 10 hours a week (on average) in a leadership role for a volunteer wilderness SAR team. Because of my course requirements situation I've found myself usually taking 17 hours of coursework per semester. There are semesters where this works out, and there are semesters where I tell my higher ups in SAR that I'll be stepping back for a few months. In the big picture school take preference, and I convince myself of this knowing that I'll be able to help many, many more people in more critical ways if I keep this school thing going for a little longer. I will admit that every single summer it became harder and harder to go back to school in the fall. It is hard to go back to school after a search exercise, let alone an actual search. It is hard to step away from the amazing community of first responders... and go to class. But I convince myself it is worth it, and I have people around me that help me with that.

@EpiEMS gave some great sources of data to show that medical school, for the most part, is not as high reaching as many take it to be. This is especially so as the "holistic" concept continues to spread and develop. I often encourage those on the edge to do a little research into the lower-end schools to see that it can be done. Additionally, there are "scenic routes" that can still be critical to one's career path once they finish medical school.

Many pre-meds get their EMT because it is a line on their resume and never put it to use. As far as I know, schools recognize this and thus put it off to the side. What I believe to be beneficial is actually working, for thousands of hours over a few years, as an EMT and gaining the patient contact and customer service experience. We can all beat our chests about the effectiveness of an EMT, but at the end of the day any decent paramedic (let alone doctor) blows an EMT out of the water. BUT, to this day, I still see 4th years and residents that cannot assess a patient to save their life (read every way possible). Take advantage of the opportunity to work with great people, experience a variety of patients, and if nothing else, make a difference in the community.

ALL of that said, please keep in mind I've had academic and pre-med advisors, and family and friends, helping me stay on track. I haven't applied nor interviewed yet, nor do I know for a fact a few of the things said above. This is an opinion-oriented, experience-based post. Everyone's experience will vary, and that's a good thing.

Good luck @Gurby !!!

 

[SandpitMedic]

There's a ton of great data on this on the AAMC website.

For reference, I'd note that mean GPAs and MCAT scores for applicants and matriculants are markedly different (though not necessarily different with statistical significance). For mean total GPAs (all coursework, science + non-science), in the 2015-16 year applicants were at 3.55 (SD 0.34), while matriculants were at 3.77 (SD 0.25). For mean total MCAT, applicants were at 28.3 (SD 5.6) and matriculants were at 31.4 (SD 3.9).

And for what it's worth, look at this chart by major - absolutely fascinating.

From my personal perspective, coming from a medical family and having interests in public health, I always had considered medicine as a career. However, as other opportunities with lower opportunity cost and quicker upfront benefits (i.e. not waiting 12 years to make decent money) became apparent swayed me. EMS had helped - I found that I love interacting with patients for short periods, but I wouldn't stay interested for much longer than that...so I tend to think that most physician (or PA) roles would not hold my interest, and neither would nursing. Plus, I'm more of a "systems" thinker - so the business/administrative end always seemed more logical for me to consider.

Bingo.
Thanks for the info.
Better be >3.7 science GPA or don't waste your time.

 

[Gurby]

Bingo.
Thanks for the info.
Better be >3.7 science GPA or don't waste your time.

Smashing the MCAT can help make up for a low GPA, but both numbers are important and say different things about you as a student. IE, high MCAT low GPA looks like you're smart but lazy / bad at sustained effort, and medical school seems to be more about working hard than raw intelligence.

 

[LanceCorpsman]

@Grimes when I was graduating HS, i never would have thought in a million years that I would be even trying to be a doctor. I kind of was forcefully into patient care when I signed the contract to become a corpsman. In less than an year after graduation, I worked in an ICU, and even did some triaging in clinics. I absolutely fell in love with healthcare.

My path to pursue medical school didnt come till after I got out of active duty and started to work on a box. I realized that most of the issues that I faced in the pre-hospital or even the ICU/ED setting, could have been prevented if those patients had decent primary care/preventative health. I think that as a physician, I can make the biggest impact on patients themselves and also the healthcare system as a whole.

I like the signature quote @Summit uses. "The only 3 acute pathologies are trauma, toxins and infection. The rest of the modern pathology requires years and decades to create an acute event; if possible to manage or reverse, it takes years." This quote perfectly describes why I want to become a doctor. I want to see patients before they become critically ill.

@Summit I know it says its a paraphrase of 'Veneficus,' can you tell me where exactly i can find the source? If its a book i would like to read it

 

[Summit]

I like the signature quote @Summit uses. "The only 3 acute pathologies are trauma, toxins and infection. The rest of the modern pathology requires years and decades to create an acute event; if possible to manage or reverse, it takes years." This quote perfectly describes why I want to become a doctor. I want to see patients before they become critically ill.

@Summit I know it says its a paraphrase of 'Veneficus,' can you tell me where exactly i can find the source? If its a book i would like to read it

Veneficus was a well learned and respected poster here who went on to med school (in Europe). He doesn't post here anymore sadly. Now that you mention it his screen name is reminiscent of the Greeks of yore. I'm sure you can find his old posts.

 

[LanceCorpsman]

Smashing the MCAT can help make up for a low GPA, but both numbers are important and say different things about you as a student. IE, high MCAT low GPA looks like you're smart but lazy / bad at sustained effort, and medical school seems to be more about working hard than raw intelligence.

The only thing that I am absolutely scared about is the MCAT. I honestly don't know what to expect. Ive already briefly gone through the section kaplan books for the classes Ive taken (gen chem, bio, physics), but still don't have a good grasp. After I graduate from my undergrad, I plan on taking a gap year and focus on studying for at least 3-4 months.

How did you study for the exam @Gurby?

 

[LanceCorpsman]

@Summit no wonder why the all mighty google couldn't find the source...Thanks! I'll defiantly dig up some of the older posts.

 

[StCEMT]

PA school is an awesome option. From my understanding though, the science pre-reqs are pretty similar to medical school. So id imagine you'd have to do those classes in addition to your degree.

Honesly, I will have to probably pick up shool part time down the road. By the time I even get to that point, I doubt what sciences I do have will be recent enough. unfortunately I hate the basic sciences. I took A&P half asleep and passed almost everything with an A, but molar masses and the basic science **** makes me wanna beat my head in my desk.

 

[LanceCorpsman]

Honesly, I will have to probably pick up shool part time down the road. By the time I even get to that point, I doubt what sciences I do have will be recent enough. unfortunately I hate the basic sciences. I took A&P half asleep and passed almost everything with an A, but molar masses and the basic science **** makes me wanna beat my head in my desk.

Damn haha, you mean to tell me that you don't like converting moles to grams?? lol. I love learning about even the basic of the sciences (as long as it can relate to medicine or the human body). The part where I struggled the most was freshman bio where the part of the course was environmental science and plants. I absolutely hated it and the it didnt help that I let the professor that I hated the subject she had a PhD in...

 

[StCEMT]

Damn haha, you mean to tell me that you don't like converting moles to grams?? lol. I love learning about even the basic of the sciences (as long as it can relate to medicine or the human body). The part where I struggled the most was freshman bio where the part of the course was environmental science and plants. I absolutely hated it and the it didnt help that I let the professor that I hated the subject she had a PhD in...

Hate it all. I will happily take all kinds of anatomy classes or whatever, but bring all the other stuff in and I lose interest.

 

[Gurby]

The only thing that I am absolutely scared about is the MCAT. I honestly don't know what to expect. Ive already briefly gone through the section kaplan books for the classes Ive taken (gen chem, bio, physics), but still don't have a good grasp. After I graduate from my undergrad, I plan on taking a gap year and focus on studying for at least 3-4 months.

How did you study for the exam @Gurby?

The MCAT is the great equalizer, but it sinks a lot of people. It largely tests critical thinking skills and your ability to pull out information and analyze long, convoluted, scientifically dense passages. It's hard to develop those skills in a short period of time, so if your science classes weren't rigorous and you weren't pushed very hard, it'll be tough to prepare for.

The biggest thing I did was spaced repetition. I used Supermemo (Anki is a free and more popular program) for most of my studying throughout all of my science courses, and continued to review those flash cards even after finishing the class. I'm up to around 10,000 flash cards now (including all the sciences, MCAT specific prep, paramedic stuff) and review them daily. I only have to do ~50 per day at this point to keep all that info in my head. I still add cards almost every shift as a medic when I see some new med, learn some new factoid, etc.

On top of the daily flashcard reviews throughout the entire process, I basically did 3 months of hardcore intensive studying: 1 month of content review working through the entire ExamKrackers series for each section and making more flash cards along the way; 1 month spent doing practice passages a la carte (I'd do some from each section every day, maybe aim for like 4 each from C/P, CARS, Bio, Psych in that order); and then 1 month dedicated to practice full length exams under test-like conditions (ended up doing 8 FLs which was too much IMO for that period of time... should have done a few less but spent more time reviewing them afterwards). Worked out pretty well I think.

 

[EpiEMS]

The MCAT is the great equalizer, but it sinks a lot of people. It largely tests critical thinking skills and your ability to pull out information and analyze long, convoluted, scientifically dense passages. It's hard to develop those skills in a short period of time, so if your science classes weren't rigorous and you weren't pushed very hard, it'll be tough to prepare for.

FWIW, based on some older data - it's pretty shocking how choice of major seems to influence MCAT scores (and, indeed, most test scores), of course, the causality is unclear...

 

[Gurby]

FWIW, based on some older data - it's pretty shocking how choice of major seems to influence MCAT scores (and, indeed, most test scores), of course, the causality is unclear...

Not surprising at all.