sirengirl
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True, but still. I always look at things from my physical standpoint, and I don't even weigh in the triple digits.
Police and Firefighters Stand by as Man Drowns
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Shishkabob
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*Sigh*
Yet one more reason why I despise journalists...
Honestly, just like with gallows humor, if someone doesn't have the balls to do the job we do, they shouldn't have the audacity to pass judgement on what we do in said job. This journalist would never jump in to freezing waters to save a "drowning" man, yet she passes judgement on people who don't want to risk their own lives for a suicidal person?
If what the journalists say is right (often not) and it was neck deep water, the damn guy could have walked out of the water if he wanted to... he clearly didn't, even after an "hour of treading water".
Friggin friggity frig frig.
Yet one more reason why I despise journalists...
Honestly, just like with gallows humor, if someone doesn't have the balls to do the job we do, they shouldn't have the audacity to pass judgement on what we do in said job. This journalist would never jump in to freezing waters to save a "drowning" man, yet she passes judgement on people who don't want to risk their own lives for a suicidal person?
If what the journalists say is right (often not) and it was neck deep water, the damn guy could have walked out of the water if he wanted to... he clearly didn't, even after an "hour of treading water".
Friggin friggity frig frig.
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You know they'll milk this a little bit (the journalist), but had some firefighter, LEO, or EMT gone out into the water and drowned with this AMS individual the journalist would maybe, maybe spend 30 seconds on this story. I can't fault the people that showed up on the scene for "standing around", you have to go back to your family at the end of the day. There is no difference here to me between a victim in San Francisco Bay and a victim under a downed power line or a victim in a haz-mat situation. You wait for proper resources to show or the victim moves to a safer location on their own.
If the guy was distraught the time to call 911 was before he went down to the beach and jumped into the water, just like you don't wait to see if they'll actually pull a gun or knife out or get a rope and really use them.
If the guy was distraught the time to call 911 was before he went down to the beach and jumped into the water, just like you don't wait to see if they'll actually pull a gun or knife out or get a rope and really use them.
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Yet you would probably never turn down the opportunity to get your picture in the paper or tell all about your life saving heroics to a journalist either just as you do here.
You are only reading a couple of articles picked up the the national news service. The local papers have many articles that were initiated by the FD/PDs in another attempt to make this a political battle just like the amendment to the ordinance they wanted last year which drained the budget. The legal expenses could have been used to continue to support the Water Rescue Unit which Alameda did have. It was also the FD who helped make the choice to get rid of what they thought to be unnecessary services.
If you have an agenda or want to promote your profession, the journalists and media sources can be your best friends. But, the public who was present for that day are also entitled to their side. Some may also thought their tax increase was going to restore some of the services previously cut. The 84 y/o step mother wanted to go into the water to save this man as did many others who knew him since Alameda is a rather small community but were physically unable to do so because of age, physical ability and disability or advised not to by the FD and PD.
It is also sad that some here do not have a greater understanding of depression and suicide or feel they must make fun of this person. Regardless of not being able to attempt a rescue, these patients deserve some compassion and so do their families. You probably have no idea what that 84 y/o went through trying to help him and is now the one who must put up with your comments to make her grief that much harder. Regardless of what you think of suicidal people or just mental illness in general, they are still human beings.
Shishkabob
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Continue to pretend you know me or what I do.
I love how you were able to gleam all your response from an 8 word response showcasing my disgusts of journalists.
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I wanted to save space so I only quoted a few words but here is the rest of your post.
It was a female who pulled the man from the water and you don't know if she was one of the journalists writing one of the articles.
The man was also not threading water the whole time and in the last few minutes until the woman swam out to him, he was floating and unconscious.
That "damn guy" is still a person and became a patient of the FD. It would be disheartening if they believed their patient was just some "damn guy". That would give the bystanders a reason for doubt.
It was a female who pulled the man from the water and you don't know if she was one of the journalists writing one of the articles.
The man was also not threading water the whole time and in the last few minutes until the woman swam out to him, he was floating and unconscious.
That "damn guy" is still a person and became a patient of the FD. It would be disheartening if they believed their patient was just some "damn guy". That would give the bystanders a reason for doubt.
Shishkabob
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I had a whole response laid out, but I'll ask you a simple question, Journey:
You get called to an apparent suicidal patient. You find them slitting their wrists with a blade. Do you charge in and save the day or do you hold back?
How is this situation any different?
You get called to an apparent suicidal patient. You find them slitting their wrists with a blade. Do you charge in and save the day or do you hold back?
How is this situation any different?
You seem to miss the whole point of my posts and that of some of the journalists.
No one is faulting the FFs for not rushing into the water. They are finding fault for the battles between the unions, FDs, PDs, city and all the legal battles for no longer having this service but more pay and benefits are being given for less services. Alameda is an island. Do you not see anything wrong with not having some ability to rescue people from the water? They had this service and now they don't but not for the reasons one would think. Regardless of your lack of interest in patients like that "damn guy", some in the Alameda FD would like to be able to help and would like to have that ability back.
There should have been some system in place to do the rescue once the threat was over such as in this case when he became unconscious. But then for your example, I seriously doubt if you would do anything for that "damn patient" either once they lost consciousness.
What I am finding fault with you is that you consistently blame the patients for everything and seem to lack any understanding or compassion of diseases including that of mental illness. The fact that you demean patients with comments like "damn guy" and don't see him as a human being is just another example of your overall attitude. I am glad you are not a FF in Alameda since that would put a whole different spin on the public's opinion for their situation. The residents of a community should be more than just that "damn guy". Even if you are not able to do a rescue, you should not be calling the patient names especially in such a hopeless and helpless situation. While suicide is sometimes known as a selfish act, it doesn't relieve the grieving of the family to know the FD/EMS providers are thinking the patient is not worth saving even if there was a way.
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Shishkabob
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I'm going to ignore all your attempted personal attacks that you always do, and go back to the situation at hand:
You never answered my question: Suicidal patient, razors, wrist slitting, would you charge in or hold back?
You never answered my question: Suicidal patient, razors, wrist slitting, would you charge in or hold back?
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As I said, you have no understanding of disease processes and mental illness. Do you have any idea of what it takes for a person to do that or do you even care?
I answered it in that post.
I also stated no one is finding fault with the FFs but rather with the way they no longer have the equipment and training available.
I guess you want me to pass on your comments to the step mother of that "damn guy" and your opinions to the citizens of Alameda in the next issue of the local paper. But, I will also make it clear YOU are just the spokeperson for EMTlife and not for the professional FFs and Paramedics who would rather find ways to help the patients and people they serve.
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Shishkabob
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And the personal attacks continue from some lady who has no clue who I am, what I do, and what I do or do not know.
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The personal attacks are coming from you against a patient you do not know.
Again, it is not always all about you.
firetender
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Okay, kids, you've made it clear you're not too happy with each others' attitudes. Now, try to learn something by making room for other reflections.
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
Even though this is an anonymous forum, some discretion should be used before calling a patient "damn guy" and criticizing something at least one here may have very little knowledge about. You never know when that "damn guy" might be a neighbor, friend or family member of someone reading this very public forum. I realize Linuss is only the spokesperson for EMTlife and not all of EMS but some of this bashing of the patients does not represent EMS or EMTlife any better than his *** wiping comments about nurses.
It is perfectly okay to critique the overall rescue or discuss what you might have done. But again, the FFs in Alameda were not criticized or at least not by those of us here in Alameda that have some understanding of the events that have come about over the past two years and know those involved in this unfortunate and tragic incident.
Just be mindful of who your audience might be and that is is not a closed forum. Perhaps it should become a closed forum so others in EMS are not viewed to hold the same negative opinions about patients and other professionals as a few on this forum.
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And that's enough of this one.
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