Play Nice

[Justice]

Ok I know this is an old topic covered in other threads but this is better then posting in an old thread.

My girlfriend has been an emergency dept nurse for a few years now, she works overnights in one of the busiest and most dangerous cities in the country. I have gone out several times a month with her various coworkers over the years for breakfast or drinks. To this day I have yet to ever hear a nurse or tech at the table talk about a paramedic unless I (the only EMT) brought up a coworker. They never complain about EMS.

I go out with my own coworkers all the time or just watch their facebook. Nothing but disrespect towards nurses. It is so few and far between that you hear a good thing said about a nurse and if something nice is said it tends to be about a nurse that is dating or married to someone in EMS. :sad:

#1 You complain about the nursing home nurse but those places are owned and run by crooks. Understaffed underequipped and never taken care of. Patients that abused their bodies all their life end up there. They treat staff like crap, they can be dirty, some are homeless scamming the system for a place to live. yes they are not great at handling emergency situations but that is not what the do day to day, They did nursing school years ago and dont handle emergencys everyday. thats the point of 911, Oh crap I dont know what to do let me call 911. Meanwhile she has an impossible patient load and cant meet you at the door with a fresh baked pie. EMS gets use to being "all eyes on me" because of going to someones house and having the whole family looking at you and asnwering any questions. GET OVER IT. You have 1 patient they have 50.

#2 You get to the emergency room and the nurse is being rude. IT'S AN EMERGENCY ROOM remember your past 3 calls you dumped off on that nurse? ya she has to monitor 2 patients waiting to be sent to the ICU, 1 patient that doesnt need an ER that keeps asking for ice and every little thing. You say she is mad at you for bringing her another patient? This happend to my girl last night. EMS brought in back to back trauma's 1 serious car crash and one guy who got drunk and fell down a flight of stairs (they arrived within 20 minutes of eachother) 1 hour later a guy walked in with a gunshot to the abdomen. She had to contact security and law enforcement while running her 3rd trauma in under 2 hours. You know all the attention you show your 1 or maybe 2 patients during your 30 minutes with them? You know all the documentation you have to do without even pushing a med sometimes? Try that when your average patient spends 6-9 hours under your care getting Meds, MRI, X-ray, vitals every 5-30 minutes (They have to track and note those even tho a machine takes it).

I love EMS but honeslty the reason why EMS doesnt get the respect it deserves is because people in EMS dont show other health care providers the respect they deserve. EMS is rapid response and acute care. Stabalize, keep the pt alive and get to the hospital. Nursing is long term care and the nursing model is about caring for more then just the injury or illness. They try and make the person comfortable and happy when they can.


EMS=Tough job

Nursing=Tough job

Doctor=Tough job

In my opinion most people in EMS who bash nurses are jealous because nurses have higher pay, better hours and in general are more respected.

That "incompetent nurse" has in general 1-2 years of college just for her prerequisites before she could apply to her 1-2 year nursing school. maybe if medics did the same they wouldnt feel spoken down to.

I'm sorry but I cant stand the superior attitude of some people in EMS and there is no need to put nurses down the way I have seen far to many do. I have only once gotten attitude from a nurse and my next time at the hospital when it had calmed down I went and spoke to her and she apologized saying she got frustrated with the current patient load and some family members that were bugging her every 5 minutes.

I have been to a few MCI's and seen pure chaos among EMS. Imagine that everyday at an ED.

Play nice or don't play

 

[Remeber343]

#1 You complain about the nursing home nurse but those places are owned and run by crooks. Understaffed underequipped and never taken care of. Patients that abused their bodies all their life end up there. They treat staff like crap, they can be dirty, some are homeless scamming the system for a place to live. yes they are not great at handling emergency situations but that is not what the do day to day, They did nursing school years ago and dont handle emergencys everyday. thats the point of 911, Oh crap I dont know what to do let me call 911. Meanwhile she has an impossible patient load and cant meet you at the door with a fresh baked pie. EMS gets use to being "all eyes on me" because of going to someones house and having the whole family looking at you and asnwering any questions. GET OVER IT. You have 1 patient they have 50.

For one, your statement about nursing homes being for people that have abused their bodies their whole life, is definitely not true. Most people are there for either rehab, or for failure to thrive and inability to take care of ones self. For you to generalize that is very harsh. These nurses knew what they were getting themselves into when applying for a job at a SNF. Low money, treated like crap, and overworked. This is no excuse for them to be incompetent. I am not saying they all are incompetent, but quite a few of them are. They have CNAs and such to help them during the day, clean, take care of pts, etc. Mostly, it Isn't their fault. They find an issue with a pt, call the doctor, then the lazy doctor just sends the pt to the ER because he has better things to do then have pt contact. I also believe poor phone reports to the doctor attribute to him just sending them to the Er right away.

For example, we get a 911 tone out at 0200 to a SNF for an 70 y/o female, fell 4 hours prior possible wrist fx. Arrive to find the pt sleeping in bed. Wake her up, ask how shes feels, which is fine. Take a detailed look at the wrist in question, manipulate it, confirm good ROM, good CMS, no deformities or swelling noted, no pain with any of the above. The nurse still called the doc and had her transport. I know they are overworked, and I can sympathize with them. But when they call for a transport because they come up with some BS reasons to get a pt out of their hair, I lose all respect for them.

 

[MediMike]

Ok I know this is an old topic covered in other threads but this is better then posting in an old thread.

My girlfriend has been an emergency dept nurse for a few years now, she works overnights in one of the busiest and most dangerous cities in the country. I have gone out several times a month with her various coworkers over the years for breakfast or drinks. To this day I have yet to ever hear a nurse or tech at the table talk about a paramedic unless I (the only EMT) brought up a coworker. They never complain about EMS.
It's nice you like your girlfriend. It's also very clear that you are as biased as you make others out to be

I go out with my own coworkers all the time or just watch their facebook. Nothing but disrespect towards nurses. It is so few and far between that you hear a good thing said about a nurse and if something nice is said it tends to be about a nurse that is dating or married to someone in EMS. :sad:

#1 You complain about the nursing home nurse but those places are owned and run by crooks. Understaffed underequipped and never taken care of.
No excuse for not doing your job properly

Patients that abused their bodies all their life end up there.
By living?

They treat staff like crap, they can be dirty, some are homeless scamming the system for a place to live.
Are you talking about the nurses or the patients? Yes, the patients oftentimes are dirty, especially when they are not cleaned properly by the SNF staff. I fail to see how a homeless person is scamming the system by living in a nursing home, there are certain qualifications that need be met prior to be admitted to a SNF

yes they are not great at handling emergency situations but that is not what the do day to day, They did nursing school years ago and dont handle emergencys everyday. thats the point of 911, Oh crap I dont know what to do let me call 911. Meanwhile she has an impossible patient load and cant meet you at the door with a fresh baked pie. EMS gets use to being "all eyes on me" because of going to someones house and having the whole family looking at you and asnwering any questions. GET OVER IT. You have 1 patient they have 50.
What exactly are you asking people to get over? If you're asking EMS personnel to get over the fact that oftentimes the facility staff is unable to give a proper report on a patient then no, that is not something that should be gotten over, it is an issue that needs be addressed, be it with the staff or the administration
#2 You get to the emergency room and the nurse is being rude. IT'S AN EMERGENCY ROOM
So what? I am an EMERGENCY SERVICE PROVIDER, and I'm not rude
remember your past 3 calls you dumped off on that nurse? ya she has to monitor 2 patients waiting to be sent to the ICU, 1 patient that doesnt need an ER that keeps asking for ice and every little thing.
Dumped off? I'm guessing you're referring to the delivering of a patient to the ED. And sounds like she's doing her job

You say she is mad at you for bringing her another patient? This happend to my girl last night. EMS brought in back to back trauma's 1 serious car crash and one guy who got drunk and fell down a flight of stairs (they arrived within 20 minutes of eachother) 1 hour later a guy walked in with a gunshot to the abdomen. She had to contact security and law enforcement while running her 3rd trauma in under 2 hours. You know all the attention you show your 1 or maybe 2 patients during your 30 minutes with them? You know all the documentation you have to do without even pushing a med sometimes? Try that when your average patient spends 6-9 hours under your care getting Meds, MRI, X-ray, vitals every 5-30 minutes (They have to track and note those even tho a machine takes it).
Gosh that's too bad. If the stress level if too high to maintain a certain level of professionalism then your girl should move to an urgent care or med surg setting perhaps

I love EMS but honeslty the reason why EMS doesnt get the respect it deserves is because people in EMS dont show other health care providers the respect they deserve.
Nice generalization

EMS is rapid response and acute care. Stabalize, keep the pt alive and get to the hospital. Nursing is long term care and the nursing model is about caring for more then just the injury or illness. They try and make the person comfortable and happy when they can.
Making statements like these I'm curious how long you've been in EMS. This is a fallacy, the majority of EMS calls in this nation are not "acute care/keep the pt. alive and get to the hospital". We see more primary care issues than true emergencies requiring that level of acute management. Are you implying that as EMS professionals we don't attempt to make the patient comfortable and happy? That taking care of the patient as a person is a level of compassion reserved for those who completed nursing school?


EMS=Tough job

Nursing=Tough job

Doctor=Tough job

In my opinion most people in EMS who bash nurses are jealous because nurses have higher pay, better hours and in general are more respected.
Your opinion, welcome to it. I strongly disagree with it. I see no difference in the amount of respect given to either profession, the higher pay is true, better hours? I'm pretty happy working my 9-10 days/mo

That "incompetent nurse" has in general 1-2 years of college just for her prerequisites before she could apply to her 1-2 year nursing school. maybe if medics did the same they wouldnt feel spoken down to.
It is true that the nursing profession requires more education, the level to which it is applied varies greatly. I would trust a prehospital professional managing a cardiac arrest involving one of my family members more than an RN, or pretty much any other acute care situation

I'm sorry but I cant stand the superior attitude of some people in EMS and there is no need to put nurses down the way I have seen far to many do. I have only once gotten attitude from a nurse and my next time at the hospital when it had calmed down I went and spoke to her and she apologized saying she got frustrated with the current patient load and some family members that were bugging her every 5 minutes.
So because she was having a bad day she took it out on you...sounds like you had the same interaction that you said never happened. Was this RN the one bad apple? Maintaining a professional relationship with co-workers is part of being a grown up

I have been to a few MCI's and seen pure chaos among EMS. Imagine that everyday at an ED.
Completely different scenario. You take that same MCI and let it be run by the ED RNs and see what happens. Perhaps the system you work for is indeed incompetent, but do not attempt to apply your systems capabilities to a broad generality of EMS.

Play nice or don't play

Nice PSA though.

 

[Justice]

For you to generalize that is very harsh. These nurses knew what they were getting themselves into when applying for a job at a SNF. Low money, treated like crap, and overworked. This is no excuse for them to be incompetent.

But when they call for a transport because they come up with some BS reasons to get a pt out of their hair, I lose all respect for them.

#1 the same could be said about EMS

#2 So the nurse is just getting the pt out of their hair while the pt is sleeping in bed? and your saying the nurse doesnt want to be bothered at 2am but isnt that why you are mad about doing the call?

 

[Remeber343]

Not at all mad about the call. If the pt had something actually wrong, I would have no issue taking them to the ER and making them feel better on the way there. I love my job. I enjoy helping these people. But when a nurse is completely incompetent and can't even do an assessment, then yeah, It grinds on me a little bit.

I expect that since these people went to school for 2 years, they should have a good grasp on what is going on. Most of the time I swear they are singing peanut butter and jelly time over and over in their heads.

 

[truetiger]

I don't have anything against nurses, just stupid people. It doesn't matter to me if they are an RN, LPN, EMT, Medic, MD, or civilian. Stupid is stupid, no matter the title or occupation.

 

[Shishkabob]

Naw, I don't want to.

 

[Justice]

Mike how am I biased? My girlfriend is an RN yes but I have worked in EMS for 8 years. I see both sides of it and from where I am standing I see EMS looking for an outlet for the shortcomings of their profession.

I notice you made no comment about me being out with coworkers who bash nurses.

 

[MediMike]

You are generalizing all EMS providers, which shows a bias. Much as you accuse all EMS providers of being biased against RNs.

If your buddies bash RNs constantly, lecture them. Work with them to establish a more positive relationship with the local ED staff.

I see more of a shortcoming with the SNF staff, as well as those ED RNs that are unable to do their job. Overworked? So are we. Underpaid? Nope not them, just us. So if you work off of that premise, it should be the EMS folks who are rude, and not doing their job in a competent fashion since we are 2/2 on that list. As was mentioned by Remember, when the staff will not perform a simple assessment it shows a definite lack of competence. And I stand by my statement that if you work in a system where the ED staff is rude on a regular basis, it shows a definite lack of professionalism and character, be it due to personality defects or frustration from being busy. "Play nice or don't play"? How about "Too hot then get outta the kitchen".

 

[MediMike]

Naw, I don't want to.

Classic. Short. Sweet. Succint.

 

[Remeber343]

Maybe you have never heard nurses bashing EMS because there is nothing for them to bash us about? haha kidding. I'm not the full of myself. But I can agree with the comment that stupid is stupid. And I've met my fair share of incompetent EMS personnel.

 

[Justice]

Maybe you have never heard nurses bashing EMS because there is nothing for them to bash us about? haha kidding. I'm not the full of myself. But I can agree with the comment that stupid is stupid. And I've met my fair share of incompetent EMS personnel.

This is my point.

 

[Remeber343]

This is my point.

And this is mine. Obviously I was kidding. Lighten up buddy. If you don't like hearing people complaining about nurses either tell them so and convince them otherwise or find different people to hang out with.

 

[Justice]

My favorite ignorant EMS comment is "A nurse cant do anything without a doc telling her to"

Neither can a medic. medic pushes medication #1 because Doctor Howdy says when you have this B/P this rate and the pt is presenting like this push medication #1

Only difference is Medic works for 1 doctor overseeing med control while a nurse works for many different doctors who can choose to treat the same thing different ways.

"A nurse cant drop a tube and a medic can"

Any Monkey can drop a tube. I'm only an EMT an I have dropped more then my share while I was in the Army.

You dont make yourself look good by trying to make the other guy look bad.

 

[Farmer2DO]

I don't have anything against nurses, just stupid people. It doesn't matter to me if they are an RN, LPN, EMT, Medic, MD, or civilian. Stupid is stupid, no matter the title or occupation.

I agree with you. But sometimes they're not stupid, they're lazy. And anyone can be lazy. Often times, that's worse.

You are generalizing all EMS providers, which shows a bias. Much as you accuse all EMS providers of being biased against RNs.

Yup. What he's railing against, he's doing himself.

My favorite ignorant EMS comment is "A nurse cant do anything without a doc telling her to"

Neither can a medic. medic pushes medication #1 because Doctor Howdy says when you have this B/P this rate and the pt is presenting like this push medication #1

Only difference is Medic works for 1 doctor overseeing med control while a nurse works for many different doctors who can choose to treat the same thing different ways.

"A nurse cant drop a tube and a medic can"

Any Monkey can drop a tube. I'm only an EMT an I have dropped more then my share while I was in the Army.

You dont make yourself look good by trying to make the other guy look bad.

What this means is that different jobs have different job descriptions, different training, different education, and different expectations. Most nurses don't intubate, but I don't expect them to. Few paramedics draw ABGs, place NG tubes, place foleys, and are exposed to the spectrum of medications that nurses are on a daily basis. Neither one of those means that either one is not competent; on the contrary, they are somewhat specialized, and should be good at their field.

I know many nurses that I have a TON of respect for, that I would willingly place the care of my family into any day. Same goes for doctors and midlevels. But there are also the ones that I wouldn't. Same applies to EMS. Everyone has bad days; I get that. If you are willing to act like a human being after a bad encounter, we'll be fine. But if you act like a D-bag just because I brought a patient to your ED, then get another job. The nurse doesn't like running back to back to back traumas? Don't work at a trauma center. The nurse doesn't like taking care of 50 patients? Don't work at a SNF. I get that they have a big load; but if they call me, they really need to be prepared to tell me why I'm there, and they need to have done an assessment of some kind. Don't run and hide when we get there, don't give me attitude because I'm asking questions, and don't pull the "He's not my patient/I'm covering for someone/I just started my shift" crap. It's crappy patient care and it doesn't fly.

Most of my EMS co-workers work hard, are competent and professional and treat other professions with respect. Don't paint us all with the same brush.

 

[Zeroo]

I knew there was a butting of heads with medics and nurses.... I didn't know it was this bad.

 

[the_negro_puppy]

In this thread, one person using personal experiences an anecdotes to generalise multiple professions and push his opinion.

There will always be *****ing, rivalry and friction between any professions working closely together/ reliant on each other. Instead of trying to preach here just accept it as a fact of life and move on. Just because you've never heard nurses *****ing about EMS doesn't mean that it doesn't happen just as much as EMS ---> Nurse.

Run away Simba, run far away from these forums and never return.

 

[ATrain]

In this thread, one person using personal experiences an anecdotes to generalise multiple professions and push his opinion.

There will always be *****ing, rivalry and friction between any professions working closely together/ reliant on each other. Instead of trying to preach here just accept it as a fact of life and move on. Just because you've never heard nurses *****ing about EMS doesn't mean that it doesn't happen just as much as EMS ---> Nurse.

Run away Simba, run far away from these forums and never return.

Great point, plus style points for the of pictures. A+ post, my man.

 

[Bullets]

This is my thing with nurses giving EMS a hard time...You signed up for this bologna. You work at a hospital, which means you get to deal with peoples BS "Medical" problems. If you thought this would be different, then your either an idiot, or clueless, which is basically an idiot. I understand you are swamped, but as an EMS unit who bought everyone your dealing with here, we deal with it to.

Also, this goes for EMS who complain about the workload. EMTs and medics alike. You knew what you were getting youself into, or should have know. Either your getting paid, which mean shut and do your job, or you are a volunteer, which means no one is pointing a gun at your head to do this. If you want better hours with little work, go be a firefighter.

 

[Shishkabob]

Hakuna matata.