Personal Defense.

firemedic7982

firemedic7982

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In the past I have worked in service areas that are "socio-economically challenged" ridden with crime, gangs, drugs, prostitutes, and criminals.

The majority of calls in that area were assaults, shootings, stabbings, rapes, etc. The potential for physical harm the myself and partner was almost ever present. There were numerous occasions where I had to "defend" myself, and / or my partner against physical harm from a pt. / bystander / family member sometimes while they possessed deadly weapons.

There were occasions where law enforcement had extended times enroute to our scenes, werent notified, were not on scene for whatever reason, thus leaving me to defend myself at whatever costs, sometimes in situations where a retreat to safety was difficult.

I have made discussions with co-workers of mine in the past about personal defense products in the ems field. Most recently the topic of EMS personnel carrying "less-lethal" devices such as OC / Pepper spray, or Tasers.
I have also heard the topic many times about EMS personnel who are liscenced to carry a concealed weapon being allowed to carry on duty in a concealed manner that abides by / and is in accordance with state and local municipal laws.

I would like to hear what some of your opinions are on the subject. Some of us work in urban / rural environments that pose a significant threat to EMS personnel , and law enforcement isnt always there to help us.

Do you think we should be able to carry any types of defensive weapons for our own personal protection?
 
paging dt4ems. paging dt4ems. dt4ems please report to the lounge for the thread "personal defense"......
 
oh, and i noticed your a new member. welcome! as i bet your not aware of it, there is a search feature on this board. the button is in the control bar at the top of the screen, 4th from the left. it leads to a veritable weath of information on topics that have been hashed and rehashed to the point of nausea. this topic happens to be one of the topis brought up more often, along with "pov lights", "basics suck", "medics suck", and the rest of them.

there are many really smart, well trained, truly expert people here and some that have gone on to bigger and better things. answering the same question over and over again can get a little trying, so some people stop, thus you dont get their expert viewpoint. but if you search for a topic and find its been discussed over and over, you get all the info you need.
 
KEVD18 said:
oh, and i noticed your a new member. welcome! as i bet your not aware of it, there is a search feature on this board. the button is in the control bar at the top of the screen, 4th from the left. it leads to a veritable weath of information on topics that have been hashed and rehashed to the point of nausea. this topic happens to be one of the topis brought up more often, along with "pov lights", "basics suck", "medics suck", and the rest of them.

there are many really smart, well trained, truly expert people here and some that have gone on to bigger and better things. answering the same question over and over again can get a little trying, so some people stop, thus you dont get their expert viewpoint. but if you search for a topic and find its been discussed over and over, you get all the info you need.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for the welcome. Ive noticed you like pointing this feature out to new people. And many thanks for the search tool. However I think new posts reveal new opinions as well.
 
Sorry about the rough welcome. There really is a giant thread on this, and I imagine if you post, there will be some new discussion.

Welcome to the forums though...really:beerchug:
 
Pistol packing paramedics??!! I just checked my stock images and that is one I don't have on file yet for my publishers.:P Need to get that photo!

I'm sorry, but I think the concept of armed medics whether it be pepper spray or hand guns is a little over the top. How many medics are killed or seriously injured each year from their patients? I'll bet dollars to donuts its no where near the amount of medics injured or killed each year in ambulance and helicopter crashes.

Don't get me wrong, in my days on the road I had my share of patient and bystander confrontations and believe me when things start going real wrong and a physical confrontation seems eminent, there is nothing wrong in pulling a Monty Python and "run away" until the Calvary arrives.

Ray
 
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give a man a fish, feed him for a day. teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

yes, i do like to point that feature out to the newer members. new members arent always aware of it, just doing my part to help.
 
This debate is one that demonstrates the EMS identity crisis. Are we medical professionals? Than absolutely no, we do not carry any weapons. Or, are we public safety delivering medical care.
 
Hello again everyone. Sorry it took so long for me to answer the "paging system" I am on evenings at the PD and we have been slammed :)

OK............. EMS and weapons.......... This is a subject that has been visited and re-visited. The overwhelming majority in EMS and law enforcement as well do not believe an EMS provider should be armed with a firearm.

Now, there is a debate about which less-lethal could provide some protection. The problem is training and experience when it comes to using any tool. If you watch the news you will see most officers get in trouble and SUED when using less-lethal tools.

The issue falls back to training. IF an EMS provider decides to carry OC/MACE "when" would be the best time to use it? OC/MACE should not be sprayed in less than 3 ft from a persons face.

Well now that sucks...... I guess we can't use it in the back of the truck.................

Taser........ hmmmmmmmm that requires me to point and pull the trigger. A simple slap of the hand and the barbs/wires are off in another direction. AND you only got one shot.

Now, do I believe in both of those tools and carry them (at the PD)? You betcha.


It all goes back to the beginning..............

Look for my "Six Steps" and it will al make sense.
 
One of the things that most LEO's learn in training... whenever they go to a call, even a noise complaint call for a barking dog... it becomes a "man with a gun" call... why? Because the officer is bringing a deadly weapon with him. If he is unable to be able to maintain control of the firearm, he could be shot.

I've got some basic firearms training, and have the certification to work as an armed security officer in my state. In my state, all you need is a clean criminal background to get a license to carry... I've got SERIOUS concerns about any agency that is OK with an UNTRAINED person carrying a firearm. I've had enough training to know that I NEED MORE TRAINING to really feel safe to carry openly on duty. I have no urge to carry a gun at work... I've got PD for my safety :)
 
I have had a carry conceal permit since I was 21, over 20 years now. Never ever have I had a gun on board with me when working on any ambulance! Carrying any firearm in PA will get your certification revoked right away as well as both of the places I work have strict policies where you will be fired immedently if you have one on a truck.


Come on folks first thing the teach you in EMT class, BSI on? Scene safe? I know some are in rural areas and don't have police to help them out but take a coarse like this self defense coarse. Don't ruin what you have over something silly.
 
Thanks Pittsburgh for speaking with sense! I jumped into one of the previous threads on this topic before and learned a thing or two about choosing my battles. I will say only, that I do not believe that weapons of any sort have any place in an ambulance. I can say that from the comfort of my volly system, with 90% of my calls being for patients I've known personally for years.

I have some background in law enforcement and have many friends in law enforcement. Most LEO's I've met can talk the paint off a door. Control of a scene can be established IN MOST CASES without the use of a weapon. I assume that without proper training, any weapon I carry stands a higher liklihood of being used against me than in my defense. I can't imagine using pepper spray let alone a gun inside of an ambulance. The confined space would present a ton of challenges that all have unhappy endings.

Now, am I willing to take on the level of additional education required for the safe, effective use of a weapon in order to perform my job without fear? Nope! I got enough on my plate keeping up with how to treat trauma without adding how to create more trauma.

For those of you who assume that this means I just hate guns, wrong again! I live in the country and have several guns in my home. Hubby got a ration from his co-workers one year for getting me a shotgun for Christmas.
 
BossyCow said:
Thanks Pittsburgh for speaking with sense! I jumped into one of the previous threads on this topic before and learned a thing or two about choosing my battles. I will say only, that I do not believe that weapons of any sort have any place in an ambulance. I can say that from the comfort of my volly system, with 90% of my calls being for patients I've known personally for years.

I have some background in law enforcement and have many friends in law enforcement. Most LEO's I've met can talk the paint off a door. Control of a scene can be established IN MOST CASES without the use of a weapon. I assume that without proper training, any weapon I carry stands a higher liklihood of being used against me than in my defense. I can't imagine using pepper spray let alone a gun inside of an ambulance. The confined space would present a ton of challenges that all have unhappy endings.

Now, am I willing to take on the level of additional education required for the safe, effective use of a weapon in order to perform my job without fear? Nope! I got enough on my plate keeping up with how to treat trauma without adding how to create more trauma.

For those of you who assume that this means I just hate guns, wrong again! I live in the country and have several guns in my home. Hubby got a ration from his co-workers one year for getting me a shotgun for Christmas.
Click to expand...



Oh don't get me wrong in the 24 years of playing this game there have been quite a few times I had to think quick and duck out of the way of a flying lamp but the police were with us and ducking also.
Come on we are trained in medical situations, the police are trained to deal with this. I am lucky I did mention I'm a city boy and we work great with the police. Don't get me wrong we do have to wait a few minutes sometimes for the law to arrive but scene safety is everything. I want to stay alive, myself and my partner are number one.
 
that site is cool, dt4ems.net, thanks for posting it, nice pictures too
 
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