Paramedic Scope of Pratice

VentMedic

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Most here that were trained more then 15 years ago can remember being taught things that you would never see in a medic class today. Things like, Chest tubes, centesis, and intercardiac epi. These are not taught any longer for reasons.

Yes, that was pretty standard in the programs and the textbooks. I can not imagine some of the procedures being taught today in the 3 month wonder classes. I can not imagine some of the agencies with poor medical oversight keeping their skills or knowledge up to par especially when even ETI and IV skills are in question. We seem to have a problem keeping people competent in the few skills and medications that are available now in prehospital.

People want to do the "cool" stuff but quickly loose interest when they realize what type of commitment they will need to maintain their skills. The industry already has had too many botched crics because people thought since they were shown once in Paramedic school, they are proficient for a lifetime. I can see the same mentality happening with other procedures also.

Many of the things emt-student mentioned are available to some EMS agencies. Most are available for Flight or specialty. Storage and cost are major issues. The cost is more from maintaining the skills of the providers. The number of times the skill may get used may not outweigh the cost or benefit. Very rural areas can be the exception. Many of the thrombolytics studies in the 80s and 90s were done in large city areas like Miami where you are not that far from any hospital. During that time we were also experiencing the Cath-in-a Can era which practically had a cath lab chasing the ambulance.

Even the teams that do routinely use advanced skills are still required to train and retrain. That goes for the "regular" stuff like intubation and IVs. Much of the advanced practices actually require more education and knowledge than "tech" skills. IABP, LVADs and Ventilators are pieces of technology that doesn't take much to learn how to turn knobs but if one doesn't have the education and knowledge, one can do some serious harm to the patient.
 

Jon

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Thought of a third one we are allowed to do - (all in Wisconsin - Arizona is a whole different ball of wax) - post mortem C section. And as for the pericardiocentesis, we are taught to do it and expected to for tamponade. (once again, that was in Wisconsin. I think if I tried it here in Arizona I would be swinging off a pole)

PS - Ventmedic - no special equipment required. All that is needed is a 14 gauge angiocath and a large syringe.
To show how varied we are - In Jersey... that will get your cert pulled.
 

medicdan

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Foxbat

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I assume (and want to confirm) you are referencing the events from September, 1997, when a medic, under order from OLMC, performed a c-section on a dying patient, only to be sued. See article linked below for more info.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...sec=&spon=&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

I'm not sure if this is the same case, but I heard that medics later faced murder charges, which were then downgraded to manslaughter. I think they were convicted....
 

Onceamedic

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I didn't say anything about the equipment. Pericardiocentesis is still in my protocols for the helicopter and Specialty. I am still required go to the lab for training and retraining. I have used the skill only a few times in 30 years.

My post was about liability for the untrained.

so sorry - my bad.... :blush:
 

BLSBoy

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I'm not sure if this is the same case, but I heard that medics later faced murder charges, which were then downgraded to manslaughter. I think they were convicted....

I searched NJ EMS website back to 1999. No suspensions or discipline for such incident back to 1999.
 
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mikie

mikie

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How about chest tubes...

Does your protocols allow for them? Too invasive*? (*stemming from original question)
 
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