Opinions on EMTs Under 18 yo

[MicahW]

Id say the same for FF I think you should have to be older than 16-17, but I digress. Based on some of his other posts, I don't think he has the maturity to be acting as a primary on a call.

squirell15, I did not mean for this to be at all about me, your opinions about me are not really relevant to this. I simply gave myself as an example to start a dialogue about opinions regarding the subject in general. I also do not think that by looking at how I joke around on the internet, you can judge the kind of EMT that I am. I know many EMTs and medics who, if you saw them in a bar, you would think should never be allowed around a patient, but this is no representation of them as a medical professional. If you ever find yourself in southeast CT, message me, I would gladly have you ride with me and hopefully change your opinion.

 

[MicahW]

I don't know of any paid positions that hire under 18, or even any besides Darien CT Post 53 that allows solo attendants <18. Darien EMS does it as part of a high school explorer type program and also uses adult crew members to help at certain times and staff some sort of AEMT/Intermediate fly car. There are however plenty of places that let people younger than 18 be involved in parts of Fire/EMS departments as juniors or cadet members.

If you look closely at the original post here, you'll notice the OP is only mentioning "his company" and "his crew" as those he was doing student based ride alongs with before or after EMT school.

chaz90 is completely correct, only volunteer positions until you are 18.
There is nothing against hiring a 17yo from the CT OEMS but it would be an insurance issue and child labour laws could make it complicated.

 

[squirrel15]

squirell15, I did not mean for this to be at all about me, your opinions about me are not really relevant to this. I simply gave myself as an example to start a dialogue about opinions regarding the subject in general. I also do not think that by looking at how I joke around on the internet, you can judge the kind of EMT that I am. I know many EMTs and medics who, if you saw them in a bar, you would think should never be allowed around a patient, but this is no representation of them as a medical professional. If you ever find yourself in southeast CT, message me, I would gladly have you ride with me and hopefully change your opinion.

It's not you joking around on the internet, you present yourself in a serious manner in different threads about how you would handle calls and such. And you would have me ride with you? I'm sorry but represent yourself in a truthful way, you do not have a crew and you aren't working. YOU are the ride along, and you have no authority to just invite some random guy from the internet to ride with you.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Given that those under 18 are generally not legally liable for their actions the same way those over 18 are, I am surprised that any state allows certification for those under 18.

I guess I don't have a problem with a 16 or 17 year old taking an EMT course and being "provisionally" certified (i.e. they can be certified but must be closely supervised) until they turn 18. But the majority of 17 year olds just don't have the maturity to handle the responsibility that comes with practicing on their own as an EMT. And given the OP's statements in the other thread, it doesn't look like he's any exception to that.

 

[john young]

Wait, what? I don't see how this relates to what I said

Quoted the wrong thread! apologies. Was meant to be in reply to redundant bassist's post.

My bad.

 

[squirrel15]

Quoted the wrong thread! apologies. Was meant to be in reply to redundant bassist's post.

My bad.

Haha alright, no big deal I was just confused

 

[Bennyems]

I enrolled in an EMT class at 17 and didn't get licensed until 18, I do fine. I think it's more so about emotional capacity. As PT, I would be a little on edge too if my provider wasnt even allowed to vote or better yet, allow my own medical care. Where I'm from, you can be 17 with parents permission to take the class but have to be 18 to apply for licensure. I agree with the point that it should be allowed with close supervision until said EMT is a legal adult. I guess the biggest concern I can see with it, is how would an agency justify the death of a patient if it had been caused by a 16 year old EMT. Or operating an emergency vehicle when you just got your license? There's a lot of gray area with a situation like this I think.

 

[Tigger]

I guess I don't have an issue with 16 and 17 year olds riding as a third crew member. Age is a number and not necessarily an indication of maturity, but there is a correlation. I don't think it's inaccurate to say that most people under the age 18 are mature enough to be the primary medical provider. Some might be, but generally speaking no. They certainly should not be driving, inexperienced drivers are dangerous enough in their POVs.

Everyone knew that it was because I was 16 and the firefighter did not like the idea of being an EMR on a call where the EMT was 16.

Maybe that's why it happened, seems to be a bit of an assumption. I can't imagine that anyone would actually care that much.

I also disagree with programs such as this one: http://www.post53.info
The entire EMS system in this town (Darien) is made up of high school students. I think that the only time anyone else goes to a call is for ALS assistance. I have never been on a call with them (even though I live quite close to them) but I have heard some bad things.

I think that they make it seem like EMS is a job that can be preformed by kids--it is not. I think that it also encourages an attitude that this is not too serious, that it is something you do with your friends. I think that some people can be EMTs before they are 16, but to be one, you need to be trained in an environment that does not tolerate a childish attitude. EMS is nothing like school: you don't get to screw around on calls like you do in classes and making EMS an "after school activity" is absolute absurd (but it is Darien's prerogative and I am glad not to live there). Look at the pictures on the site too. I am not one to judge a company on its gear, the best can do anything with nothing, but they really need to stop shopping at Bob's for their pants. I have never seen a supervisor wear white pants and I would be interested to see how well those work out when getting bled and thrown up on.[/QUOTE]
So you have no idea how they operate but you'll go ahead and "disagree" with them. Seems legit.

squirell15, I did not mean for this to be at all about me, your opinions about me are not really relevant to this. I simply gave myself as an example to start a dialogue about opinions regarding the subject in general. I also do not think that by looking at how I joke around on the internet, you can judge the kind of EMT that I am. I know many EMTs and medics who, if you saw them in a bar, you would think should never be allowed around a patient, but this is no representation of them as a medical professional. If you ever find yourself in southeast CT, message me, I would gladly have you ride with me and hopefully change your opinion.

This is a forum of EMS professionals. How you present yourself is exactly how you will be judged. So far, you have not presented yourself as a particularly mature individual. A bar is not the same environment. When you're old enough to spend time in them, you might find that people go to them to relax, and no one is judging anyone on their fitness for employment.

Your enthusiasm is admirable. But understand that you're at the bottom of the ladder, and age has nothing to do with that. You need to earn respect, not demand it.

 

[MicahW]

Your enthusiasm is admirable. But understand that you're at the bottom of the ladder, and age has nothing to do with that. You need to earn respect, not demand it.

I do not at all think that I am anywhere but at the bottom of the ladder, I was simply pointing out that this is not about me.
If you have an opinion on the matter, I would curious to find out what it is, but this was not meant as a thread where both sides could simply attack each other.

As for how I present myself, I assumed that this was a place where I could joke around with people who shared the same sense of humor about our job as well as share ideas. I am sorry if you do not think that the first one has any place here and think less of me because of it, but I cannot change that.

So you have no idea how they operate but you'll go ahead and "disagree" with them.

I disagree with the concept, not them as EMTs and EMRs, after all, that is what this thread is meant to by about: the concept, not individuals.
I also find this quite hypocritical: you seem to be fine disagreeing with me as an EMT off of what you can tell from the internet without having seen me operate, yet I cannot disagree with the concept off of what I have heard and can tell from the internet. Furthermore, how can you tell that they "seem legit" if you have even less information than I?

 

[MicahW]

It's not you joking around on the internet, you present yourself in a serious manner in different threads about how you would handle calls and such. And you would have me ride with you? I'm sorry but represent yourself in a truthful way, you do not have a crew and you aren't working. YOU are the ride along, and you have no authority to just invite some random guy from the internet to ride with you.

I actually have taken ride alongs with me at my volunteer company, where I am a full member, the same as everyone else. Please do not speak about something that you do not know about. In reality, would I have some random guy from the internet ride with me? Probably not unless he were thinking of joining the company, and I would not want to be contradicted at every turn either.

 

[Tigger]

I do not at all think that I am anywhere but at the bottom of the ladder, I was simply pointing out that this is not about me.
If you have an opinion on the matter, I would curious to find out what it is, but this was not meant as a thread where both sides could simply attack each other.

As for how I present myself, I assumed that this was a place where I could joke around with people who shared the same sense of humor about our job as well as share ideas. I am sorry if you do not think that the first one has any place here and think less of me because of it, but I cannot change that.

As I said, I don't think most people under the age of 18 are mature enough to work in EMS. There is plenty of humor on EMTLife. Do not attempt to justify some of your previous postings as a "joke." When you walk into a discussion and advocate punching someone in the face to take control of scene and then say "just joking," no one will take you seriously.

I disagree with the concept, not them as EMTs and EMRs, after all, that is what this thread is meant to by about: the concept, not individuals.
I also find this quite hypocritical: you seem to be fine disagreeing with me as an EMT off of what you can tell from the internet without having seen me operate, yet I cannot disagree with the concept off of what I have heard and can tell from the internet. Furthermore, how can you tell that they "seem legit" if you have even less information than I?

I have no idea if you are any good at providing medical care, nor would I attempt to judge that. But your interpersonal communication skills need serious work, and those are in fact rather important "EMS skills."

 

[triemal04]

I enrolled in an EMT class at 17 and didn't get licensed until 18, I do fine.

Odd that you would say you do fine given that 10 days ago you had very limited, if any experience working as one. I'm sorry, but you have no idea if you'll "do fine," or to really know if you are at the stage where this is something for you to do.

OP, I hope you understand that the more you continue to post this way the more you prove that you do in fact lack the maturity, interpersonal skills, life experience, understanding, and capacity to be involved in the medical field.

18 is not some magical age where suddenly overnight everyone becomes capable, mature, and ready for adulthood. It is a very arbitrary number that became the "age of adulthood" a long time ago. And unfortunately, the trend for quite some time has been going in a direction where it is far, far to young an age for the average person to be considered an "adult." Some people always have, and always will be for more mature and competant than their actual age and could be considered "adults" in their teens (sadly a small minority). Some people will be far less mature than their actual age, and will not be capable, competant "adults" well into their thirties. Some people fall in between. OP, you appear to be in one of the latter two groups.

 

[MicahW]

You are taking my comments completely out of context. I was trying to say that the way in which the OP of that thread acted was more than reasonable and that he should not be worried at all. I did not "advocate" taking that course of action, it was obviously a hyperbole, and if you cannot see that, then I am sorry. If you have any other problems with me as a person, please PM me and we can discuss them, otherwise, this thread was meant for general opinions on the subject matter.

By the way, I find it interesting that you can judge interpersonal skills from a screen. I have never had to type out a message to a patient, I usually just say it to them.

 

[MicahW]

Odd that you would say you do fine given that 10 days ago you had very limited, if any experience working as one. I'm sorry, but you have no idea if you'll "do fine," or to really know if you are at the stage where this is something for you to do.

If you are here to attack others about other posts, please leave.

 

[triemal04]

If you are here to attack others about other posts, please leave.

It's not attacking at all. It's keeping people honest so that someone doesn't take some bad advice from someone who shouldn't have given it and do the wrong thing.

By the by...are you 17 or 19? Because until today your profile listed you as 19.

 

[Tigger]

You are taking my comments completely out of context. I was trying to say that the way in which the OP of that thread acted was more than reasonable and that he should not be worried at all. I did not "advocate" taking that course of action, it was obviously a hyperbole, and if you cannot see that, then I am sorry. If you have any other problems with me as a person, please PM me and we can discuss them, otherwise, this thread was meant for general opinions on the subject matter.

By the way, I find it interesting that you can judge interpersonal skills from a screen. I have never had to type out a message to a patient, I usually just say it to them.

Here's the thing though, this is exactly what most of us are talking about when we say that many young people lack the maturity to work in EMS. And you just keep proving that over and over. This thread is a shining example of why many of us have issues with it.

As to judging interpersonal skills? Writing is communication. You don't communicate well.

 

[squirrel15]

To OP, if you wanted this thread to be an open dialogue solely about whether a provider can be under the age of 18 and our opinions on that, just post that question without providing your background, the answers we have provided would be the same, you just would not be used as an example as to why some of those opinions are the way they are.

I never judged the way you are as an EMT or the competency of your skills. I gave my opinion that you should not be a primary on a call due to the immaturity you have shown on this forum, that does not necessarily mean your skills are awful, I don't know you to be able to assess your skills. All we have on the forums are what is posted by each member, the members are not officially vetted here, so unless you personally know someone you take what they have to say with a grain of salt and do your own digging to see where they stand. When people start contradicting themselves we have to try and self police and out them with a real story on what they do and their experience to give a better picture as to how what they say should be taken.

And you don't believe you're at the bottom of the ladder, this is shown by how you talk about the fire department. Even if the guy has an attitude, he's been there done that more times than you've combed your hair most likely.

So my advice, don't take everything on here personally, nobody is here to attack you, or to make you feel unwanted. But we will call things how we see it, and we will give our opinions whether you like it or not. From here on, don't include yourself in your posts whether real or anectdotal, unless you want to be used as an example or to be compared to directly in the responses.

 

[Bullets]

Given that those under 18 are generally not legally liable for their actions the same way those over 18 are, I am surprised that any state allows certification for those under 18.

I guess I don't have a problem with a 16 or 17 year old taking an EMT course and being "provisionally" certified (i.e. they can be certified but must be closely supervised) until they turn 18. But the majority of 17 year olds just don't have the maturity to handle the responsibility that comes with practicing on their own as an EMT. And given the OP's statements in the other thread, it doesn't look like he's any exception to that.

This is how its done in NJ, you can take the EMT class at 16 and if you pass you get an EMT card that says "PROVISIONAL" on it until you turn 18. You can only be a third, there has to be two 18+ EMTs with you. I have worked on a number of hybrid agencies that have volunteers that are cadets or provisional EMTs. Some work out, others dont, just like 18+ EMTs. I dont really care your age.