Oklahoma Trooper Suspended Over Scuffle With Paramedic

[HotelCo]

I've actually never seen flag-wavers... just people look at it with a more open mind.

You haven't looked hard enough then.^_^

 

[Shishkabob]

But I guess you are right. That Medic clearly deserved to be choked for not respecting the officer's abuse of authority.

Officer said medic was under arrest, medic said "no" and tried to leave, officer tried to stop, medic put hand on officer, officer controlled medic. It truly IS that simple of a scenerio.

Having said that, do I agree with what the officer did? Nope. But I also do not fault to the degree that some other people do, because in a situation where you're in a physical confrontation with someone, you react by impulse, and not by plan.

There are people who defend bad cops to the end, always seeking some justification or rationalization for how the officer was somehow not in the wrong. Watching you in the last thread, I'm afraid I count you in this category.

You'd ALMOST be correct. Fact is, I tend to take a much more objective viewpoint on matters such as this, instead of jumping directly in to "OMG THE PIG SHOULD BE FIRED". If an officer did something TOTALLY unprovoked, I'd the first to say so, but I also realize that they are still human (usually) and as such, minor mistakes happen and their families shouldn't suffer because of such.

 

[Summit]

in a situation where you're in a physical confrontation with someone, you react by impulse, and not by plan.

NO. LEO's are trained to be very careful about when they start a physical confrontation and then they are supposed to react with training, not impulse. I don't think a front choke is in their training. A lot of departments would fire for use of that maneuver.

You'd ALMOST be correct. Fact is, I tend to take a much more objective viewpoint on matters such as this, instead of jumping directly in to "OMG THE PIG SHOULD BE FIRED". If an officer did something TOTALLY unprovoked, I'd the first to say so, but I also realize that they are still human (usually) and as such, minor mistakes happen and their families shouldn't suffer because of such.

For a law and order type, you sure seem to grant special dispensation to some. It's human for the cop, who is supposed to be cool under pressure, to lose his temper when he is trained not to, and over a falsely perceived minor insult and then he abused his authority to assuage his ego... someone suffered because of it, but why punish the cop and his family? Certainly someone of that personality won't repeat it.

Then you hypocritically fault the paramedic for having a human reaction instead of obeying the abuse of authority.

Let's put it another way. If the paramedic was insulted by a patient and accidentally grabbed the wrong med vial because he couldn't control his emotion and hurt the patient with bad treatment, you wouldn't be arguing that "to err is human let's not hurt him or his family just because he hurt a patient.

 

[JonTullos]

I took have to put the blame pretty much on all parties involved. The trooper was wrong for the way he acted toward the driver, the medic and the driver were wrong for their unprofessional attitudes in front of the patient... the only innocent one in all of this is the patient. I think the choking incident was wrong... I think, though, that if they had handled this situations like adults then it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

And if the trooper did think he had gotten the finger from the driver did he simply pull them over for that reason? Come on.

 

[Summit]

I took have to put the blame pretty much on all parties involved. The trooper was wrong for the way he acted toward the driver, the medic and the driver were wrong for their unprofessional attitudes in front of the patient... the only innocent one in all of this is the patient. I think the choking incident was wrong... I think, though, that if they had handled this situations like adults then it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

And if the trooper did think he had gotten the finger from the driver did he simply pull them over for that reason? Come on.

Sure. But then ask: Whose conduct was unprofessional enough that it should result in their evacuation from their profession?

 

[Shishkabob]

NO. LEO's are trained to be very careful about when they start a physical confrontation and then they are supposed to react with training, not impulse. I don't think a front choke is in their training. A lot of departments would fire for use of that maneuver.

Yes, training is to help them in those situation, but to think that people don't react on impulse in a situation that is fluid such as a fight is foolish.

You and I can be trained forever on EMS related things, but throw a screwball at us that we never see, and it will tilt us off a bit. True?

For a law and order type, you sure seem to grant special dispensation to some. It's human for the cop, who is supposed to be cool under pressure, to lose his temper over a falsly perceived insult and abuse his authority... someone suffered because of it, but why punish the cop and his family? Certainly someone of that personality won't repeat it.

Let's put it another way. If the paramedic was insulted by a patient and accidentally grabbed the wrong med vial because he couldn't control his emotion and hurt the patient with bad treatment, you wouldn't be arguing that "to err is human let's not hurt him or his family just because he hurt a patient.

You're making this debate FAR too personal and I ask you to stop.

How do you know it was a "falsely perceived insult"? Were you there witnessing what the EMT did while driving? It truly is the word of the officer against the word of the EMT.

What abuse of authority? It has been stated, not only by the DA, but by the OHP, that the officer was in the right for the stop and the arrest. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it abuse of authority.

Then you hypocritically expect the paramedic to react perfectly and obey the abuse of authority instead of having a "human reaction."

Also, I never said how I expected the paramedic to act. I stated several times that ANYONE who thinks the paramedic acted correctly, in his resisting of arrest and refusal to follow a lawful command, is wrong.

 

[firecoins]

This wasn't about the law but about egos. The cop thought he got the finger and he wanted to take his anger oput on the person who supposedly gave him it. Its that simple.

 

[VentMedic]

This is just about two pathetic humans who each had serious personality flaws that happened to cross paths.

Now one will get rich from a self-serving lawsuit and the other could lose his career.

It is very unfortunate this had to play out in the public eye because it is not a fine representation of either law enforcement or EMS. The many discussions on the EMS boards have definitely not been a good representation of EMS and does more to present EMS as a bunch of characters who have no problems within our own profession and some who know so little about their own profession but yet are now experts on Law Enforcement. That makes many of us commenting on this forum just as professional as the two jokers this whole mess is about.

I will not donate to any legal fund for this EMT-P. I will not watch the court proceedings. I will not buy the book nor do I plan to watch the movie when it eventually comes out. One very bad TV interview was enough. At least the LEO was man enough to apologize and did not feel the need to make himself a TV star and publically call for the EMTP's badge. The EMT-P doesn't have any more temperment for EMS as he stated the LEO doesn't for his profession.

Neither deserves such public attention for such bad behavior on all parts.

 

[Chimpie]

This thread will end like it always does-- locked with 4 of us receiving infractions.

tsk tsk, don't tempt us.

I'm going to guess 5 hours.

5 hours until this thread is locked.

This will turn into a cop bashing/cop flag-waving thread.

Eh, you were close. It took about 8.5 hours.

This has been debated before, and has been debated enough.

Thread closed.