Occupational hazards

[LE-EMT]

Ok this is a question I would like to pose. Understand I know the protocol on this and what you are required to do. I am looking for personal opinions and feelings.
So you arrive on scene to a attempted suicide. Human head Vs. shot gun. The pt/vic is laying on the floor gasping for air. The left side of the face is..... well some where on the wall behind them... You know in you mind this person is in the last stages of existence on this earth. Even if they do make it its medical induced coma and a vegetative state for the rest of their miserable life.

Would you prefer to help them and hope they survive in the fore mention state or make them comfortable so that they can pass peacefully into what ever religious fate that awaits them????

Remember I don't want to hear what your protocol says.

 

[CFRBryan347768]

Ok this is a question I would like to pose. Understand I know the protocol on this and what you are required to do. I am looking for personal opinions and feelings.
So you arrive on scene to a attempted suicide. Human head Vs. shot gun. The pt/vic is laying on the floor gasping for air. The left side of the face is..... well some where on the wall behind them... You know in you mind this person is in the last stages of existence on this earth. Even if they do make it its medical induced coma and a vegetative state for the rest of their miserable life.

Would you prefer to help them and hope they survive in the fore mention state or make them comfortable so that they can pass peacefully into what ever religious fate that awaits them????

Remember I don't want to hear what your protocol says.

I say go all out in trying to save them

 

[Flight-LP]

Opinions and feelings are irrelevant to your duty to act and are a negligible defense should you ever be named in a civil suit.

Its really simple..................

If they have a pulse, you treat them.

If not, then they are dead with injuries incompatible with life.

If they proceed from #1 to #2, then you have to refer to your appropriate protocol (Like it or not).

 

[LE-EMT]

You are missing the purpose to this post. I don't care what protocol says. and if you quote protocol in a post that specifically says NO PROTOCOL then you are a mindless drone. I want you to think beyond the job I want to hear feelings. Common you are inherently compassionate people talk about it.

You are not on the job here. I am not going to bring you up on civil charges because you took 5 minutes to think beyond protocol. I am not asking you to do this in the field I am asking you to look inside yourself. Its not that hard to do. Or maybe we all just suppress such feelings because of protocol when questioned we don't have a real answer

 

[CFRBryan347768]

You are missing the purpose to this post. I don't care what protocol says. and if you quote protocol in a post that specifically says NO PROTOCOL then you are a mindless drone. I want you to think beyond the job I want to hear feelings. Common you are inherently compassionate people talk about it

Well since you want feelings, after gasping double checking what I see start assesment and kick some butt on the way to the hospital.

 

[Ridryder911]

As Flight described do my job.. Yes, that is my feeling, that is what I am educated to do, and paid to do.. feelings is not what I get paid for.

As well, I know it does not really matter as you described the scenario, I am making them comfortable to die.


R/r 911

 

[LE-EMT]

For informational purposes. This is not a real scenario. Its just for personal knowledge. There is no right answer there is no one grading this. thank you for your input.

 

[VentMedic]

Ok this is a question I would like to pose. Understand I know the protocol on this and what you are required to do. I am looking for personal opinions and feelings.
So you arrive on scene to a attempted suicide. Human head Vs. shot gun. The pt/vic is laying on the floor gasping for air. The left side of the face is..... well some where on the wall behind them... You know in you mind this person is in the last stages of existence on this earth. Even if they do make it its medical induced coma and a vegetative state for the rest of their miserable life.

Would you prefer to help them and hope they survive in the fore mention state or make them comfortable so that they can pass peacefully into what ever religious fate that awaits them????

Remember I don't want to hear what your protocol says.

You do your job. Your efforts might not be futile even if the pt is determined to be brain dead, his/her organs may give life to several others.

 

[firecoins]

Opinions and feelings are irrelevant to your duty to act and are a negligible defense should you ever be named in a civil suit.

Its really simple..................

If they have a pulse, you treat them.

If not, then they are dead with injuries incompatible with life.

If they proceed from #1 to #2, then you have to refer to your appropriate protocol (Like it or not).

yep. Thats it. And I follow my protocols.

 

[Flight-LP]

You are missing the purpose to this post. I don't care what protocol says. and if you quote protocol in a post that specifically says NO PROTOCOL then you are a mindless drone. I want you to think beyond the job I want to hear feelings. Common you are inherently compassionate people talk about it.

You are not on the job here. I am not going to bring you up on civil charges because you took 5 minutes to think beyond protocol. I am not asking you to do this in the field I am asking you to look inside yourself. Its not that hard to do. Or maybe we all just suppress such feelings because of protocol when questioned we don't have a real answer

Mindless Drone??? Congratulations, thats a new one...............

So o.k. let me try again. I am sitting here licking my special stamps and eating these really yummy mushrooms and I'm feeling a little wierd. So now that I am in your special world of feelings that apparantly dictate the sole outcome of this person, I will answer your question........................

If they have a pulse, I will treat them

If not, they're dead and I go to starbucks to get some marble cake because now I suddenly have the "munchies".

You're right, that was simple.............................

In all seriousness, feeling supression has nothing to do with thinking outside the box. Neither does this scenerio. Because one elects to do as he / she is trained / educated to do does not signify that they are "mindless drones". It simply means that they can maintain a level of professionalism to do their job and not let personal emotion overcome or cloud their judgement.

I see from your postings that you are a Peace Officer. Do you not perform this very activity every single day you are on the beat? How many times have you wanted to beat the ever loving :censored::censored::censored::censored: out of someone after they injure their wife/girlfriend/child/mother/etc.?

I appreciate the response and the chuckle it gave me, but if you took a moment to actually read what I wrote, you would see that I only inserted the "P" word in the last sentence pertaining to a person dying in our care. Sorry, but every agency should (and most do) have a very clearly defined (insert the "P" word here!) covering this.

Don't over analyze it, especially with hogwash assumptions.....................

 

[LE-EMT]

Ok, For CYA purposes as well as for the sake of not coming across as a complete Ahole. I was not singling you out as a "mindless drone" and after further consideration I realize that I could have worded the question differently. I do appreciate and applaud the fact that you didn't take offense to my often offensive nature.

The assignment was not to think out side the box. I will pose this question. Same scenario only you are not the pt/vic.........would you want EMS keep you alive and essentially save your life so that you would ultimately spend the rest of your life on a machine in a vegetative state. Then there is the alternative ( No EMS will ever do this because it is against Protocol) Make the you the vic comfortable so that you pass away peacefully.

You are missing half your face/head. Because you just tried to take it off with a shot gun....... Obviously you wanted to die to begin with.

 

[RailFan77]

On a personal level, if I came across this situation in an "off-duty" situation, I may help make the person's passage comfortable, doing just enough for "show" for anyone around. I don't know about anyone here...but I would never want to be in a vegetative state as it would be tremendously emotional and hard for the family. Yes death is rough...but the prolonged agony of being in that state would be tough on them.

However, on a professional level if I came across this, i would have to do what I'm trained to do and attempt to save the person.

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

What would I do? Simple. I'd work the h*ll out of that code. I would do anything and everything to keep your *ss alive. I'll be d*mned if I'm going to let somebody give up on life. I'll bring you back into the forementioned vegitative state, because you deserve, in my mind, to live the rest of your natural life in that prison called a coma. Suicide's for quitters.

In the meantime, I'm going to munch on some of Flight's mushrooms.

 

[TgerFoxMark]

I honestly in this case, would do what i could. Ease the pain, but still try to save them.
but the best i can do is deisel therapy.
Some of the things i have seen i knew they were dead from the injury. but the allmighty P said i had to work it.

*shudders* worst i had to WORK was motorcycle VS Fence. cut in 2 right above the pelvis. I knew he was done, but he still had a pulse when we got there.

Luckly i didnt have to work my worst call ever.
Motorcycle VS Semi. Headon Suicide, Cycle over 150mph, semi doing 55+mph. wasnt enough of the poor :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored: to bury. (I sold my bike after that one)
I loved the fact that he wore a helmet... on a suicide run. Note at his house. found later by LEO.

 

[LE-EMT]

LMAO Delta thats definitely one way of looking at it.

 

[Flight-LP]

What would I do? Simple. I'd work the h*ll out of that code. I would do anything and everything to keep your *ss alive. I'll be d*mned if I'm going to let somebody give up on life. I'll bring you back into the forementioned vegitative state, because you deserve, in my mind, to live the rest of your natural life in that prison called a coma. Suicide's for quitters.

In the meantime, I'm going to munch on some of Flight's mushrooms.

There is plenty to pass around!!

 

[Short Bus]

Work the code, sounds like a good organ donor to me

 

[RailFan77]

Work the code, sounds like a good organ donor to me

You know...I never thought of it like that. Good Point

 

[mdkemt]

I think no matter what with my training and background I would jump in and work the code. It is what I was trained to do and when I see his stuff on and off shift I automatically switch into a diferent frame of mind with emotions set to the side.

Suicide is selfish and I understand the mental state a person gets to when doing this but seriously. If you got a pulse I'm working you. If you die you die but on my watch I will do whatever I can to prevent that. As for vegetative state....get a living will drafted stating if you are ever in that state you are to be taken off any life saving equipment (like respirator).

I have this in my Power of Attorney/Living Will and Last Will and Testament. Wasn't hard to do!

MDKEMT

 

[el Murpharino]

I think the answer he is looking for is to run a slow code and let the person die while making every attempt to LOOK like you're doing everything you can...

My personal opinion...I'd still do what I can to keep this person alive. Will this person have a decreased quality of life being in a permanent vegetative state? Does this patient deserve to be in that state for life? I doubt it...but that is not my decision to make. I'll leave that up to the patients' family.