O2 Question...

[EMTecBOB]

One of the reasons I became an EMT was to be able to have a few skills to help friends and family should the need ever arise. Often we spend time way up in the mountains where emergency response, even if I head their way, would be at least an hour. - So I put together a nice little jump bag/O2/Trauma bag to take along. - My question is how to get my O2 bottle filled. Any suggestions?

 

[exodus]

One of the reasons I became an EMT was to be able to have a few skills to help friends and family should the need ever arise. Often we spend time way up in the mountains where emergency response, even if I head their way, would be at least an hour. - So I put together a nice little jump bag/O2/Trauma bag to take along. - My question is how to get my O2 bottle filled. Any suggestions?

You can't unless you're a doctor. O2 is a drug and you cannot admin it without doctors order.

 

[EMTecBOB]

Yeah....right.

 

[John E]

Find a medical gas supplier...

in your area and ask them about filling your tank up.

Try the Yellow Pages under medical/dental supplies.

You might also try a home health supplier.

Good luck, I used to use a home health store but have recently found a dental gas supplier that's way cheaper.

If you ever need an additional tank, check out BP Medical Supplies, they're in Brooklyn,NY. Very good prices on all sizes of O2 tanks and regulators. They also sell non-rebreather masks and cannulas at ridiculously low prices.

John E

 

[atropine]

You can't unless you're a doctor. O2 is a drug and you cannot admin it without doctors order.

Call your local medical supply company

 

[Fox800]

You can't unless you're a doctor. O2 is a drug and you cannot admin it without doctors order.

This is correct. Oxygen is considered a prescription medication...you will need a physician's authorization to fill a tank with medical grade oxygen.

 

[John E]

I'm not gonna get into a debate here...

but I have 2 full O2 tanks within 10 ft of me and 1 partially filled O2 tank out in my car right now, all were filled without a prescription in Los Angeles County, CA.

Contact a medical gas supplier, ask them what they require to fill your O2 tank.

P.S. should have added, all were purchased and filled at my request and paid for by me without a prescription, I didn't snag them from some ambulance company.

 

[akflightmedic]

One of the reasons I became an EMT was to be able to have a few skills to help friends and family should the need ever arise. Often we spend time way up in the mountains where emergency response, even if I head their way, would be at least an hour. - So I put together a nice little jump bag/O2/Trauma bag to take along. - My question is how to get my O2 bottle filled. Any suggestions?

In your Basic course, did you learn how to calculate how much O2 needed versus tank size and flow being administered?

Do you think the size tank you are carrying versus time from definitive care will make a difference and is worth the effort of toting it around?

And please, lose the attitude when someone gives you an answer you do not like.

The "yeh right" just because you did not like what you were hearing is ignorant.

Cheers!

 

[mycrofft]

I can buy a Kei car in LA and can't drive it.

I can raise fighting roosters and sell them but I can't fight them. I can buy an ambulance, firetruck or police car but cannot operate them. I know a guy who will file down the firing sear on an AR-215....but I digress.

Break it down. A good process to follow is there is ever any question about whether you are allowed to do something.

1. At what level of training did I get this skill? (First aid, first responder? No problem. Higher than that? Need medical direction).

2. Am I allowed to practice this skill without medical direction in the form of a doctor's order, a doctor's prescription, standardized procedures, or standing orders?

Oxygen's a sort of borderline issue. If you read the package for all medical appliances associated with oxygen administration, they read "For use by a doctor's order" or some such, including masks, cannulas, BVM's, etc. (Same for cervical collars too, bunkie).

But the third and biggest question is the "dog-caught-the-car" one:

3. "OK, I used the item, now what?". There are logical and professional sequelae to certain actions. For instance: OK, the pt's on O2. Why? How long will it last? What other treatments are necessary? How about transport? This applies to IV's, traction splints, and ESPECIALLY to spinal immobilization measures. Often, even as an EMT, your best bet if higher level EMS or even just more bodies are available, is to follow the cardinal rules: keep 'em quiet, keep 'em still, call for help early, and assist/address your A-B-C's.

If people are going to use you as their "insurance" to go out into the boonies or some such, think hard about it. Maybe they need to not go there until/unless they are actually able. Are you ready to safely pack out a patient, or go get law enforcement while someone stays with the body if someone expires?

As a side issue, there are also safety issues revolving around carrying pressurized oxidizing gas in unmarked cars or at home. Not to argue about it.B)

 

[mycrofft]

I sent a query to a medical supplier in California

Stay tuned for the answers!
(Be advised they sell every device under the sun but NOT oxygen or prefilled cylinders).

 

[daedalus]

Yea, someone was took time to answer your question and you responded with an attitude. I find that distasteful. Plus, oxygen is a drug and can cause harm to patients, I suggest downloading Bryan Bledsoe's lecture on oxygen if you do not believe me.

I also second AK's comment about time to definitive care. If alone in the wilderness with a portable tank, it will most likely run out long before responders get to you. Then what?

Better just to keep some heavy dressing and bandage material with you and forget about the O2 and other goodies.

 

[Fox800]

How long will a portable O2 tank last when you've got it high-flow with a nonrebreather or BVM? Maybe 15 minutes? Tops? In the wilderness that's pretty useless unless you've already got a helicopter in the air and en route to you before you arrive. Otherwise you'll run it dry and just discontinue it.

 

[John E]

All I can say is...

I wonder what all those SAR medics are doing with their O2 tanks, they must not know how fast they run out.

The question was about getting an O2 tank filled, not about wilderness medical care methodology.

 

[Fox800]

It's just not a good idea. I have a first responder pack that I put together myself. It has BVMs and airway adjuncts, but I don't carry an oxygen tank.

 

[mycrofft]

I was advised the gunsmithing comment was a reach. Mea culpa!

Sure was. :blush:

(But, why not the cockfighting thing......).
Point taken.

 

[medicdan]

We have had this discussion before, although not recently. To jog other's memory (hat tip to Mr. Conspriacy and his abstracts):
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=12323
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=4774

I am not going to argue you with you... other more educated members have given you their opinion, which you have thrown out. I do feel it necessary, however to rationalize myself in my post from 2007. When (shore) SCUBA diving, I find myself at increased risk of Decompression Illness (the "bends), as well as Arterial Gas Emboli. Especially for DCI, the first line of treatment is O2. I know how to properly care for my O2 equipment (hydrostatic testing, etc), do not tend to store my tanks full when inactive, and have a system to conserve O2 when out on the water.

What kind of injuries or illnesses are you expecting to find when in the hills? How are you planning on maintaining your equipment and supplies? Who will you treat? Where will this equipment be stored? How will it be carried? Who will have access to it?

 

[John E]

But that wasn't the question...

again, the question was about getting an O2 tank filled. We don't know what the OP knows, we don't know what he considers "wilderness". I can look up the mountains outside my window and see wilderness, I also know for a fact that the local SAR teams ALL carry O2 tanks into those very same mountains on every call out. Are they wrong to do so because a couple of anonymous posters on EMT Life say that they shouldn't bother? I don't think so. I trust them to know what they're doing in their given circumstance.

If more people here spent more time simply answering the questions asked without spinning off on tangents unrelated then more accurate information might get passed around. Of course that might mean that the usual suspects would have to admit that they don't know all the answers and heaven forbid that happen.

Might even lead to less of those "distasteful" posts...LOL

Some people posted that an individual can't get an O2 tank refilled without a prescription, they're wrong. I've done it, continue to do so as needed and have the filled tanks to prove it. Simply posting a "you can't do that..." doesn't help anyone.

Carry on, I'm done. I'm sure someone will now tell me that I can't do what I know I can do and that what I've done is impossible.

John E

 

[akflightmedic]

I wonder what all those SAR medics are doing with their O2 tanks, they must not know how fast they run out.

The question was about getting an O2 tank filled, not about wilderness medical care methodology.

SAR medics...working for an agency or volunteering under an agency with all legal aspects covered in regards to carrying and administering oxygen.

SAR medics...working in teams (multiple O2 cylinders), equipped with all communication devices and able to activate air resources or extract victim from remote location.

Ricky Rescue...EMT wishing to be there for his family in a remote location

Hmmm....

 

[mycrofft]

I remember when I was that way. Still lean that way, on occasion.

I don't know about "Ricky Rescue", it's enthuiastic and proactive. With time comes seasoning...sprinkled on liberally over a slow fire sometimes, especially when you lose a pt and the boss/deputy/etc call you in.

I look back at some activities I was flattered into participating in and I have trouble sleeping for the next fifteen minutes or so. Like Peewee Football medical support, Girls Scout cabin weekend where I carried (at ALL time) all their medications except the one Mom's fentanyl lollipops, etc...

 

[daedalus]

again, the question was about getting an O2 tank filled. We don't know what the OP knows, we don't know what he considers "wilderness". I can look up the mountains outside my window and see wilderness, I also know for a fact that the local SAR teams ALL carry O2 tanks into those very same mountains on every call out. Are they wrong to do so because a couple of anonymous posters on EMT Life say that they shouldn't bother? I don't think so. I trust them to know what they're doing in their given circumstance.

If more people here spent more time simply answering the questions asked without spinning off on tangents unrelated then more accurate information might get passed around. Of course that might mean that the usual suspects would have to admit that they don't know all the answers and heaven forbid that happen.

Might even lead to less of those "distasteful" posts...LOL

Some people posted that an individual can't get an O2 tank refilled without a prescription, they're wrong. I've done it, continue to do so as needed and have the filled tanks to prove it. Simply posting a "you can't do that..." doesn't help anyone.

Carry on, I'm done. I'm sure someone will now tell me that I can't do what I know I can do and that what I've done is impossible.

John E

Since the poster posted his question on a public forum, and since he has not paid to receive any real advice, we are at liberty to answer his posts with whatever comments we wish as long as they do not break forum policy. I, nor anyone else here, is obligated to answer his questions or provide him with what he wants to hear.

I believe than, it is you going on a tangent. We offered advice on how long a tank may last, and we questioned its utility and efficacy in treating medical emergencies. Thinking critically about things like this may save the OP some money, or it may harden his resolve to carry the oxygen after he has thought about all the pros and cons he may have not known about before reading various replies.

Also, what you do or have done is of no matter to me.