Nurses eat their young.

[Maya]

I would be happy to help you make the best of your ER time.

--Thank you, Level1pedstech, I really appreciate the good advice!

 

[Veneficus]

Now you are calling OTs, PTs and SLPs "techs"? You really have a very low opinion of health care professionals.

Perhaps I should have said nursing aides and er techs? You are the one who listed those providers as aides and techs, not me.

Do you know that in most major cities there are more BSN programs than ADN? Do you know it has been that way for about 3 decades now? If you do not know what a nurse does, how are you the one to just that they don't do any patient care if they have a BSN?.

Is it possible for me to know anything? By the measure here, I am lucky I figured out how to tie my shoes. (I confess, I just slip them on and off)

I also never stated that a BSN doesn't do patient care, I stated that I think there is not enough focus on patient care compared to other aspects. I formulated that opinion from speaking with nurses who have a BSN or better. Clearly even they don't know enough about nursing to help me form an intelligent opinion.

Because you seem to not believe anybody except a medical doctor can have "education" and definitely don't need another profession doing research with all the doctors around. You just stated that in your previous post.

I never once said medical doctor, I am of the opinion there are enough people with advanced degrees (in many areas) that do research that taking up people with a BSN to do research may not be the best use of resources. Perhaps there is a nursing shortage?

I think you only read what you want to. I also noticed that you don't so much debate as fanatically defend the "true" faith of which only you seem to be privy to the workings of. Such a position does not do you justice.

Protocols and guidelines. Even doctors have them. You implied the nurses are useless unless an order is written for every procedure they do. News flash for you; no doctor would have time for that..

I made no such implication, I am sorry my thoughts may be too advanced for you to comprehend without twisting them to argue what seems to be the only position you can argue effectively.

I mentioned the skills and you replied only the advanced practitioners. Try listing every skill that an RN does or even the LVN. You might be amazed. I have Paramedics do this when they believe they do a lot of skills for an eye opening experience.

You mentioned the skills, I made statement regarding advanced practicioners and you equated them together. You did so erroneously.

I do not mean a bedside report which a doctor signs that he/she saw the patient but a multidisciplinary meeting that satisfies the JCAHO requirements. There is a difference and every unit or patient care area has their own meetings and plans.

I have sat at such meetings in 3 countries. Perhaps I may have some insight? However since you seem to be creating your own arguments and attributing them to me, I doubt anything I could offer would be of much use to you.

Do you know what all is involved in the discharge of a patient. Yes the doctor writes the word "discharge" but do you really know what happens after that?

Even if I did would you acknowledge it? Irregardless, who cares? It has nothing to do with my position or statement.

The statements you have made against nurses do not speak of experience. In fact, you seem hell bent on "putting nurses" in their place by bashing those that dare to get a BSN. I can't imagine what you must think of a Paramedic that dares to get a two year degree.

I do quite often muse on the distribution of healthcare resources. I don't have the time to put anyone in their place, and even if I did, once again you have made up an argument by erroneously attributing to me an idea I did not put forth.

Yes the nurse work under protocols that are signed off by physicians and they also work under those that do not require a doctor's signature to provide total patient care. Do you think a doctor wants to get involved in what equipment to order, wound care surveilance or any of the hundreds of things that go into total patient care? Do you think the physician should write for how many times to dump the foley because by your reasoning, the nurse is too stupid for that and must have a doctor signed order..

What can I say? I did not say or imply micromanagement existed or needed to, once again you made something up to support what I can only describe as a delusion.

Do you honestly think education will lead to the extinction of a profession? PTs have a doctorate and they are now in serious demand. Do you believe the nurses should just go back to being known as "bed pan dumpers" rather than professionals in health care? What about all the other professions that have now achieved worth and recognition by insuring agencies because of their education? Do you even realize how much medicine is advancing and the technology that is used today that requires people to have advanced education?

It seems that I couldn't possibly know anything about medicine in your mind. (niether could anyone else for that matter) Your other questions have nothing to do with my statements. Save them for somebody who cares to hear it.

I guess you also support the EMT staying at 110 hours of training and the Paramedic to stay at 700 hours.

I will let my many previous statements about EMS education speak to that.

Yes and we just has a doctor arrested for child porn again. We've also had doctors arrested for molesting their patients. Sometimes a nurse or any other professional has to be a patient advocate. If a doctor writes an order that can harm a patient, it is the nurse's responsibility to point it out whether the doctor likes it or not. If a nurse makes a med error he/she must also answer for it.

I will indulge this idiotic statement for just to point out that criminal behavior is not exclusive to physicians.

Do you think nurses are only educated out of one "Fundamentals of Nursing" book? They do have a text book entitled Critical Care Medicine. How about Pediatric Primary Care? One of my many textbooks were titled "Respiratory Medicine". However, I do not claim to be a medical doctor because of the title but I also believe RT and the RN are very much a part of medicine.

Why would you belittle your knowledge by calling yourself a medical doctor? Clearly RRT or Nursing have made such a provider obsolete in your mind. I guess education can kill a profession.

You have made belittling statement about nursing and other health care professions. You have essentially stated that the RN should not become educated which puts them back into short skirts sitting on the doctor's lap like in the soaps. You believe they should remain uneducated fools that only know how to say "yes doctor" and have no say in patient care.

Actually I think you have posted more belittling statements than I have and made yourself feel better by attributing them to me. I stated that nursing has been distancing itself from its core foundation and delegating responsibility to providers such as nursing aids, assistants, techs, and other unlicenced providers. Somehow in your mind that expanded to PT, OT, etc.

You apparently had to then fabricate implied meaning behind my statements in order to satisfy some need of defending "the true faith" of healthcare providers and even toss your "oh the downtrodden female relegated to a sex object wearing a skirt" nonsense into the mix.

You seem to have some very deep seated issues that you have not been able to resolve that keep recurring. You may want to seek the aid of a professional for help with resolution as it is beyond the scope of an internet forum.

You made it personal by attacking educated health care professionals which I happen to be in that category. Your belief that only the medical doctor should have higher education and all the others should be known as techs and not professions is outdated for modern medicine.

I did nothing of the sort, you superimposed your delusion on what it was I said. (another recurring theme in your posts) I have tried to clarify my thoughts believing it to be a misunderstanding. But I was mistaken. It seems very much like a psych issue.

If you can not accept a BSN for nurses, I can not see you ever advocating for education in EMS. Afterall, EMTs and Paramedics must follow protocols just like nurses. Even a 2 year degree for the Paramedic must seem absurd to you. And yes, I've got one of those as well in EMS.

I never suggested nurses should not have a BSN, only that we should debate the economic value of having nurses removed from their core professional contributions. I also stated that I think a higher degree than a BS should be required for research.

 

[Sasha]

Last edited by Veneficus; Today at 10:37 PM. Reason: accepted a bribe

Don't you feel better now? You don't seem so grouchy in your post.

 

[Veneficus]

Don't you feel better now? You don't seem so grouchy in your post.

I was being very sincere

 

[Sasha]

I was being very sincere

You were being very mean. It is unattractive.

 

[ffemt8978]

And that's enough of this one.