No duty to act, but repercussions if I did?

LCotto

LCotto

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Hello,

I am have just started my paramedic program here in IL, and for our first day our teacher decided to give us a one page paper on a (what would you do situation). We are covering law, morals, ethics, etc.

Here is is:
Your camping some place (for me, well outside of IL) your alone minding your own business, when you hear a woman (mans wife) yelling. You run over to a nearby camp site to find a man who is choking on something. You try everything to get it out but you cannot. You have called 911 you are in such a remote area, it will take 25min for help to arrive. The wife is freaking out and the man is turning blue. Here is the twist, you so happen to have an emergency tracheostomy kit in your bag. Do you do it, or let the man die?

Stated things by teacher (All Fictitious):
Your not in IL
Your allowed to use tracheostomy kit in IL while on duty.
All other basic things to clear airway have been attempted.
The Tracheostomy is the only way, and it will work, and he will live.
He will die otherwise.
The man is 45, has a wife and kids.

So that is now my question to all of you, along with. What is the correct thing to do. What would you actually do, why?

Thanks for the help in advance.
 
This is your assignment based on your understanding of the laws and your morals. What is your short answer to the question?
 
We have not yet really talked about law, this is to see how we answer with basically no real understanding of law. To be very honest, I would do it. It may not be the right thing to do, but I cannot see myself letting a man die if I could save his life knowing I have the tool to do it a few feet away. Granted, I would never tell them my name and likely leave before anyone arrives : )
 
First, why are you carrying around a tracheostomy kit (I assume you mean cricothyrotomy) off-duty if you haven't decided ahead of time that you are willing to use it?

Second: the law does not define what is right and wrong. The terms "legal" and "moral" are not synonyms.
 
My answer would have been "I don't make a habit of carrying a tracheostomy kit around with me, so this entire question is moot".
 
Pretend you left it in your uniform pants or something and you happen to leave it in your car. However the kit ends up with you, point is in this situation you so happen to have it. In this one in a million chance, would you save the guy or not?
 
Actually I already wrote the paper. I just wanted to get extra information so I could write a better, more educated paper.
 
This, and similar scenarios, should've been covered in your EMT-B class. I don't understand how someone who's in a medic school, still doesn't know the right answer to this.
 
I agree with you, but basically all 30 students in the class had a different answer while we where talking about it. I'm pretty sure that's why it became an eassy.
 
Remi said:
First, why are you carrying around a tracheostomy kit (I assume you mean cricothyrotomy) off-duty if you haven't decided ahead of time that you are willing to use it?
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This. Can't say it any better than Remi!
 
On a side note, I would ask permission to cric him and then proceed with the blessing of the family. If they sue, then I will officially give up on humanity and make like Ted kacyzinski
 
Just forget you have the "kit", break out the old pocket knife and bic pen and Mcgyver him.
 
Screw that noise. A guy on 9/11 did just that. Off-duty FDNY EMS medic saved a woman. Was later sued and lost his certs. Granted he now makes a lot more money as a public speaker.

If he's turning blue. He will more than likely die soon. Then you can start CPR.

What happens if YOU messed up and killed him? Wife just watched YOU cut the dudes neck and watched him bleed everywhere.

All this really would never pertain to me because I can guarntee you, I will never be carrying ALS stuff around in my car.
 
LCotto said:
Your camping some place (for me, well outside of IL) your alone minding your own business
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LCotto said:
Your not in IL
Your allowed to use tracheostomy kit in IL while on duty.
Click to expand...

First, it's you're (you are).

LCotto said:
Pretend you left it in your uniform pants ...
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After getting your medic cert, please don't become a Ricky Rescue.

LCotto said:
Granted, I would never tell them my name and likely leave before anyone arrives : )
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When the time comes, make sure you pay attention to the chapter on Patient Abandonment.
 
Chewy20 said:
Screw that noise. A guy on 9/11 did just that. Off-duty FDNY EMS medic saved a woman. Was later sued and lost his certs. Granted he now makes a lot more money as a public speaker.
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Interesting. Do you have any articles or references for this?
 
This looks like a hypothetical, unrealistic situation designed solely for the sake of argument, which is typical in formal ethics discussions. I doubt that it's meant to be taken seriously. :p

Laws are typically based on what is actually going to happen in real life. Laws barring people from willy-nilly cutting people's throats in real life are probably a good thing. ;) I'd say that given the stated parameters of this hypothetical situation, it's probably ethical to cric this guy. I certainly can't say how the legal system would deal with you afterwards. It might be a lesser of two evils sort of thing? What I would personally do if presented with such a situation is a more practical question, of course, and impossible to answer with certainty.
 
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I just gotta ask...if you're camping, have you had a beer yet? And if so, will you be performing any procedures under the influence? How will that affect your decision making?
 
Chewy20 said:
I'd have to do some digging. Was given some material to read in emt class like 4 years ago.
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Nothing solid to show as a reference, but I heard this story too. Not sure about the off-duty part though, technically (and legally) it falls under the Good Samaritan.
 
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