National Standards should all be the same across the Nation?

[reaper]

To me that is STUPID on your part ........not follow the protocols.....that means you dont have standards.....educated or not......you got to have guidelines to follow regardless..... to me sir and this is just my opinion you are a IDIOT! with a educations that may get somebody hurt!

When you achieve an education, you will know how it's done. This is coming from someone that choose not to further their education in 22 years. Glad you have your Pt's best interests in mind. Let's just do it the way it's always been done. Be damned if it sucks.

We don't use protocols in our system. Our MD allows us to use our minds and not a one size fits all mentality!

 

[reaper]

Dont have too....you got it dont to a sceince! Your educated! People want they just cant afford it!

Damn right I am.

I didn't choose to stay stuck at a minimum level all my life. I cared about my Pt's welfare, not just getting to do cool skills.

You wonder why there is no national standard. I would not want you to have the treatments available to educated medics. You would be dangerous.


Funny, I paid my way through Medic school, making $7.50 an hour. Money is nothing but an excuse for the lazy. If it is wanted, it can be had.

 

[1badassEMT-I]

When you achieve an education, you will know how it's done. This is coming from someone that choose not to further their education in 22 years. Glad you have your Pt's best interests in mind. Let's just do it the way it's always been done. Be damned if it sucks.

We don't use protocols in our system. Our MD allows us to use our minds and not a one size fits all mentality!

Goes to show how much you know about me...... and glad your medical director allows you to do that .....see some of us dont have a medical director like yours ......we have to follow the guidelines and as for your statement about my educations I am college educated BA in Fire Science and ALSO I am bridging my medic.....and BTW working working on my MASTERS.... See I am not from WV just live and work here trying to get WV out of the dark.....

 

[1badassEMT-I]

Damn right I am.

I didn't choose to stay stuck at a minimum level all my life. I cared about my Pt's welfare, not just getting to do cool skills.

You wonder why there is no national standard. I would not want you to have the treatments available to educated medics. You would be dangerous.


Funny, I paid my way through Medic school, making $7.50 an hour. Money is nothing but an excuse for the lazy. If it is wanted, it can be had.

And if you would read all the threads posted here in this thread you would not jump to so quick there cowboy.....

 

[reaper]

Goes to show how much you know about me...... and glad your medical director allows you to do that .....see some of us dont have a medical director like yours ......we have to follow the guidelines and as for your statement about my educations I am college educated BA in Fire Science and ALSO I am bridging my medic.....and BTW working working on my MASTERS.... See I am not from WV just live and work here trying to get WV out of the dark.....

Then you should be at the top of the list to push for a degree. To bring WV out of the dark.

Why is it that a FF needs a degree, but a medic does not?

Does WV not have Dr's there? They all gained their education and I'm sure some were poor when doing it.

 

[1badassEMT-I]

Then you should be at the top of the list to push for a degree. To bring WV out of the dark.

Why is it that a FF needs a degree, but a medic does not?

Does WV not have Dr's there? They all gained their education and I'm sure some were poor when doing it.

FF dont need a degree.....some choose to get them.....I feel the same about medics.....as for the doctors here for the most part are not from WV research WV friend!

 

[reaper]

And if you would read all the threads posted here in this thread you would not jump to so quick there cowboy.....

I have read all the posts. Not one has mad a good argument to allow a national standard. Especially when you are arguing against a better education.

A national standard will do nothing but bring the educated down to the lowest common denominator. That will never happen. When the standard is a degree medic, then the rest of the country will benefit from the it.

 

[1badassEMT-I]

Then you should be at the top of the list to push for a degree. To bring WV out of the dark.

Why is it that a FF needs a degree, but a medic does not?

Does WV not have Dr's there? They all gained their education and I'm sure some were poor when doing it.

Better yet look at what we have to DANCE to:::::: to see what we are up against in WV

http://wvoems.org/medical-direction/protocols

 

[reaper]

FF dont need a degree.....some choose to get them.....I feel the same about medics.....as for the doctors here for the most part are not from WV research WV friend!

I have plenty of family in WV. I know plenty of Dr's that were born and raised in small coal towns, that put themselves through medical school. They knew what they wanted and made it happen. They didn't use excuses to lower the standards.

You want to raise WV out of the dark, then push for education.

 

[1badassEMT-I]

I have read all the posts. Not one has mad a good argument to allow a national standard. Especially when you are arguing against a better education.

A national standard will do nothing but bring the educated down to the lowest common denominator. That will never happen. When the standard is a degree medic, then the rest of the country will benefit from the it.

I am not saying that it should not be better educated just in a form of a DEGREE! REALLY does it take 2 years to know your job..... I will put old medics up against you that would run circles around you! Now tell me that could not happen......it doesnt take 2 years to be a outstanding medic sorry!

 

[1badassEMT-I]

I have plenty of family in WV. I know plenty of Dr's that were born and raised in small coal towns, that put themselves through medical school. They knew what they wanted and made it happen. They didn't use excuses to lower the standards.

You want to raise WV out of the dark, then push for education.

I do push education!!! I also teach it here...... I can also tell you this the medical directors from state level to the local level here will not allow us to practice outside the protocols.....meaning if that was the case we would all be doctors.......I dont believe your MD lets you FREELANCE either..... I am sure you got protocols.....I am not stupid friend!

 

[reaper]

Better yet look at what we have to DANCE to:::::: to see what we are up against in WV

http://wvoems.org/medical-direction/protocols

That is why you fight at the state level to change things. Sitting in your town and complaining how bad it is, will not get anything changed. Become active in EMS education and reform at the state level.

Do you think that your state MD will allow greater depth of treatments, when the people in EMS in the state are arguing to keep education at a minimum standard? Hell no, he won't. If the education standards were changed to require a degree and better depth of knowledge. Your treatments would follow suit.

 

[reaper]

I do push education!!! I also teach it here......

How are you pushing it? You stated that it should go back to 410 hours and be cheap enough for anyone to get.

Real education is not measured in hours. If you truly pushed education, you would be the first to scream for degree medics. Same way as Rn's are now degreed. We are about the only medical field that does not require a degree. Why is that? Because every time the push comes up, FD's and Volley services fight it. Why would anyone fight against better educated health care providers, unless the don't really care about the health care part of it.

 

[1badassEMT-I]

That is why you fight at the state level to change things. Sitting in your town and complaining how bad it is, will not get anything changed. Become active in EMS education and reform at the state level.

Do you think that your state MD will allow greater depth of treatments, when the people in EMS in the state are arguing to keep education at a minimum standard? Hell no, he won't. If the education standards were changed to require a degree and better depth of knowledge. Your treatments would follow suit.

Oh I am sure that to be the case.....And I do ...... I do sit on a committee for education here but alot of things fall on deaf ears at the state level.... however we got a new MD thinks do look promising for change but how long will take we dont know...... still alot of old money on the state level...

 

[reaper]

I do push education!!! I also teach it here...... I can also tell you this the medical directors from state level to the local level here will not allow us to practice outside the protocols.....meaning if that was the case we would all be doctors.......I dont believe your MD lets you FREELANCE either..... I am sure you got protocols.....I am not stupid friend!

Then you have not worked in a progressive system. Our actual protocol book is 3 pages. It states that we can treat to what we believe is needed and to call med control if we have any questions. We do not have protocols that spell everything out on what you can and can't do. That is a one size fits all system and it does not work in real medicine.

The difference is our MD knows that we are educated and has trust in our decisions.

 

[1badassEMT-I]

How are you pushing it? You stated that it should go back to 410 hours and be cheap enough for anyone to get.

Real education is not measured in hours. If you truly pushed education, you would be the first to scream for degree medics. Same way as Rn's are now degreed. We are about the only medical field that does not require a degree. Why is that? Because every time the push comes up, FD's and Volley services fight it. Why would anyone fight against better educated health care providers, unless the don't really care about the health care part of it.

NO I DID not read it again dude I said I remember back when it was only 410 hours and it was only 500.00 is what I said.....that was the old is that a enough hours hell no..... see you read into the statement not what it was meaning.....And my wife is RN BSN with her MSN next year..... I am fire chief here in WV I dont fight anything EMS especially educations standards.....my FF/medics down to FF/EMT-Bs are trained well and the ones who want to further that I help do it...... And to be honest I wish EMS wasnt not in the fire services then that would fix the problem you are talking about....but wont happen!

 

[1badassEMT-I]

Then you have not worked in a progressive system. Our actual protocol book is 3 pages. It states that we can treat to what we believe is needed and to call med control if we have any questions. We do not have protocols that spell everything out on what you can and can't do. That is a one size fits all system and it does not work in real medicine.

The difference is our MD knows that we are educated and has trust in our decisions.

Did you look at our protocols? We have to call ONLINE medical directions on every CALL and they notify the hospital! We dont call direct to hospital like the old days.....I would love your system!!!!! But because we dont have a system in place make not as worhty as you? Are we not trained enough as you even we wear a PARAMEDIC patch on out sleeve like you?

 

[reaper]

NO I DID not read it again dude I said I remember back when it was only 410 hours and it was only 500.00 is what I said.....that was the old is that a enough hours hell no..... see you read into the statement not what it was meaning.....And my wife is RN BSN with her MSN next year..... I am fire chief here in WV I dont fight anything EMS especially educations standards.....my FF/medics down to FF/EMT-Bs are trained well and the ones who want to further that I help do it...... And to be honest I wish EMS wasnt not in the fire services then that would fix the problem you are talking about....but wont happen!

If you feel that way and are the Fire chief, then push for EMS to be separate. There are thousands on EMS systems all over the country that are not in with Fire. They are stand alone systems that their only priority is Pt care. It does work quite well. Again it all comes down to pushing for change. Does it happen over night? No, it will not. But, the change will never happen till people start pushing it. I have seen the changes work in over 22 years. It does happen and will, if it is pushed.

 

[reaper]

Did you look at our protocols? We have to call ONLINE medical directions on every CALL and they notify the hospital! We dont call direct to hospital like the old days.....I would love your system!!!!! But because we dont have a system in place make not as worhty as you? Are we not trained enough as you even we wear a PARAMEDIC patch on out sleeve like you?

Then push for the change in it!

No, just because someone wears a Paramedic patch on their arm, does not mean they are trained or educated enough. Thinking like that is why the state MD's maintain a "mother may I" system in place.

 

[John E]

Why not...

set national standards to become an EMT and a Paramedic and then let the communities that are going to pay them decide what level of care they're willing to pay for?

Do people in West Virginia bleed differently than we do here in California?

Do people in Alaska respond differently to cardiac drugs than the folks who live in Arizona?

Get the education, then go to where the people are willing to pay you a livable wage for providing them with exceptional emergency medical care.

The entire mess that is the EMS system in the U.S. boils down to one simple thing, control.

JohnE