Medics with prescribed marijuana

[Rialaigh]

Yes, opiods are THE BEST solution for long term chronic pain. Do you have a better alternative? Now, if I require daily doses of ANY pain killer to get through my day, I will be thinking of a career change, but that is MY decision to make. Unless it starts effecting my ability to perform my job. We can't fire big fat medics for being obese can we? Unless it starts to interfere with their ability to perform their duties.



You are right , we should reduce that fracture. Now grandma has arthritis and can't walk or perform ADLs because of chronic hip pain. Now can we give her some effective pain management?

There are several government run public service agencies down here that require you to sign a no tobacco form when you get hired. It doesn't mean no tobacco on the job, it means you have not used in the previous 6 months period and will not as long as you are employed by them. This includes all Nicotine gums. Test + for Nicotine and you get put on leave or fired. They took a stance against Tobacco, they saw it is a negative projection of their image when they are trying to provide healthcare to patients, and they require their employees to abstain on and off the job. Don't like it, don't work there.

Representing the company in a negative light whether it be through actions or in the media is something that you can be terminated for. This includes behavior that you engage in in your private life. This is where it will fall with Marijuana I believe, no matter legal or not if it is seen as a negative projection of the company to have employees that use even when they are off duty, then employees will be terminated.

 

[Ewok Jerky]

There are several government run public service agencies down here that require you to sign a no tobacco form when you get hired. It doesn't mean no tobacco on the job, it means you have not used in the previous 6 months period and will not as long as you are employed by them. This includes all Nicotine gums. Test + for Nicotine and you get put on leave or fired. They took a stance against Tobacco, they saw it is a negative projection of their image when they are trying to provide healthcare to patients, and they require their employees to abstain on and off the job. Don't like it, don't work there.

Representing the company in a negative light whether it be through actions or in the media is something that you can be terminated for. This includes behavior that you engage in in your private life. This is where it will fall with Marijuana I believe, no matter legal or not if it is seen as a negative projection of the company to have employees that use even when they are off duty, then employees will be terminated.

Fascism!:rofl:

That is crazy. Call me a libertarian I guess, but I believe that a job is a job and my life is my life. As soon as I clock in, I am your's and will do whatever I need to keep my paycheck happening. But when you aren't paying me I am not following your rules. I guess I wouldn't work out down there.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Fascism!:rofl:

That is crazy. Call me a libertarian I guess, but I believe that a job is a job and my life is my life. As soon as I clock in, I am your's and will do whatever I need to keep my paycheck happening. But when you aren't paying me I am not following your rules. I guess I wouldn't work out down there.

This.

 

[LACoGurneyjockey]

Fascism!:rofl:

That is crazy. Call me a libertarian I guess, but I believe that a job is a job and my life is my life. As soon as I clock in, I am your's and will do whatever I need to keep my paycheck happening. But when you aren't paying me I am not following your rules. I guess I wouldn't work out down there.

So as long as I'm not on the clock, I can rack up endless speeding tickets, smoke weed, maybe a little heroin on the weekend, and top it off with getting black out drunk the night before work. But since I don't do it at work, it's ok? Maybe as an Assistant Sales Associate at Best Buy, but I like to think we can be held to a higher standard.

 

[Ewok Jerky]

So as long as I'm not on the clock, I can rack up endless speeding tickets, smoke weed, maybe a little heroin on the weekend, and top it off with getting black out drunk the night before work. But since I don't do it at work, it's ok? Maybe as an Assistant Sales Associate at Best Buy, but I like to think we can be held to a higher standard.

If I am doing the things you suggest, then my ability to work has been compromised and I am not fit for duty. You are bringing the argument to the extreme.

 

[Rialaigh]

If I am doing the things you suggest, then my ability to work has been compromised and I am not fit for duty. You are bringing the argument to the extreme.

That's the problem. Where's the line. Weed 24 hours before work okay but 12 hours before not? what about 16...

Until they have a way to test the levels of THC (or other worthwhile compound) in your system similar to a BAC there is simply no way to pick an enforceable arbitrary cutoff like with alcohol. At this point in the stage it has to be an all or nothing policy, which caution leaning on the side of nothing...

 

[LACoGurneyjockey]

That's the problem. Where's the line. Weed 24 hours before work okay but 12 hours before not? what about 16...

Until they have a way to test the levels of THC (or other worthwhile compound) in your system similar to a BAC there is simply no way to pick an enforceable arbitrary cutoff like with alcohol. At this point in the stage it has to be an all or nothing policy, which caution leaning on the side of nothing...

What he said

 

[Ewok Jerky]

That's the problem. Where's the line. Weed 24 hours before work okay but 12 hours before not? what about 16...

Until they have a way to test the levels of THC (or other worthwhile compound) in your system similar to a BAC there is simply no way to pick an enforceable arbitrary cutoff like with alcohol. At this point in the stage it has to be an all or nothing policy, which caution leaning on the side of nothing...

There is an element of personal responsability and adult judgement [both of which are lacking in our culture]. There is a big differenece between using a sedating medication as prescribed and booting heroin or showing up drunk to work. If I use my medication appropriately no one at work should even know I'm taking it. Just like no one knows if I had my last drink at 8pm or 12pm, or if I use tobacco or not. I leave "personal beano" at home and bring "work beano" with me. Adults, no matter what the profession, should be able to do this.

I agree with Rialaigh that there are no standards when it comes to weed.

If you are showing up all red eyed, expect to get fired.
If you are involved in an I incident and test + for weed, expect to get fired.
Go blabbing around the station you have a pot Rx, expect to get fired.

Smoke your pot responsibly [joints, no bongs] at home, once in a while, go to bed, show up sober for work. If you can't do that you have a problem.

 

[usalsfyre]

I am fairly sure that the majority of people do not use them responsibly in my area. I can also assure you that regardless of the number of people that use them responsibly, the United States by far has the worst problem of narcotic abuse in the world. I see the negative results of people abusing them because they are visible, because they are a major problem with the healthcare system and how we handle these patients.

This is known as confirmation bias and is based on anecdote and not data. The truth is the patient population you're referring to may well be FAR from a representative sample of the opiate users in your area, but you wouldn't ever know it because you fail to interact with the responsible ones.

Objectively the US has the largest problem of prescription drug abuse in the world. Objectively the US does an incredibly poor job of pain management despite having more tools than any other country in the world. Objectively the US spends more on recovering drug addicts than any other country with much worse results for the systems we use.

1. Because what we consider "abuse" is often considered "therapeutic use" in the rest of the world.

2. Because the US probably attaches more stigma than the rest of the world to prescription drug use and/or abuse

3. See #2

 

[Rialaigh]

This is known as confirmation bias and is based on anecdote and not data. The truth is the patient population you're referring to may well be FAR from a representative sample of the opiate users in your area, but you wouldn't ever know it because you fail to interact with the responsible ones.


1. Because what we consider "abuse" is often considered "therapeutic use" in the rest of the world.

2. Because the US probably attaches more stigma than the rest of the world to prescription drug use and/or abuse

3. See #2

The United States consumes 80 percent of the worlds prescription opioids and over 95% percent of the worlds Vicodin.

Yet somehow we don't rank near the top in pain management. Are you telling me that people in the US just have that much more pain then people in other countries?

I believe I read a statistic the other day that said accidental narcotic overdoses kill more people then car wrecks in something like 17 states.

 

[jackbower]

its different because it is illegal federally even if you live in Washington or colorado federal law supersedes state law so still illegal

 

[Mellowdnb]

In the next 10-15 years, if not sooner, marijuana will be legal to consume nation wide.
However, I can see companies saying an employee can't have any traces of THC in his/her system before work. Why? Like Rialaigh said, there is not an accurate test that can differentiate if one consumed less than 12 hours vs 4 days prior to work. Here's how it can backfire on an employer.

Let's say Paramedic Mary Jane and her co-work Bobby Bong had consumed marijuana 4 days before the next shift. Most of the THC would be out of the system but small traces might be found.
They get in a minor accident when they come back to work. They piss test. Small traces of THC show up.

Let's say they go to court for the accident because the other driver is money hungry. A lawyer will pull some bull poop about how they had traces of THC in the system and that's what caused the accident. The lawyer can say "How do we know they didn't consume on shift?"
If one consumed they day of or during work, traces of THC would be very high. No pun intended. If one consumed 4 days prior, THC levels would be very low. However, lawyers are sneaky and manipulative. They know what to say and how to twist things around to make it look like they are right and the two Paramedics had consumed on shift.

Employers don't want to deal with that. So I can see them still having a zero tolerance policy, even with a prescription.

If an accurate test comes along that can tell if one had consumed recently (less than 48 hours) I can see employers changing the policy.

On a similar note, I found this.

 

[JWalters]

So as long as I'm not on the clock, I can rack up endless speeding tickets, smoke weed, maybe a little heroin on the weekend, and top it off with getting black out drunk the night before work. But since I don't do it at work, it's ok? Maybe as an Assistant Sales Associate at Best Buy, but I like to think we can be held to a higher standard.

This.

 

[Tigger]

I am curious what departments that do polygraph examinations will do now. Some hiring processes include questions regarding past illicit drug use, yet if you live in Colorado it's no longer illicit. So what happens with a polygraph test taken by a former Colorado resident?

 

[Chewy20]

This.

All of our traffic tickets outside of work can get us canned. Among other things due to random drug tests.

 

[chaz90]

I am curious what departments that do polygraph examinations will do now. Some hiring processes include questions regarding past illicit drug use, yet if you live in Colorado it's no longer illicit. So what happens with a polygraph test taken by a former Colorado resident?

When I went back to Colorado on vacation shortly after legalization I was told by one of my supervisors about that loophole and that they were looking into changing the wording of the policy for that reason. It wasn't a problem for me since I've never used nor do I have plans to, but I did find it interesting.

 

[PotatoMedic]

I am curious what departments that do polygraph examinations will do now. Some hiring processes include questions regarding past illicit drug use, yet if you live in Colorado it's no longer illicit. So what happens with a polygraph test taken by a former Colorado resident?

I think my policy says something along the lines of federally illegal drugs. Since federally it is still illegal, there would be no issue on how to answer that question.

 

[9D4]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/po...-finally-see-cannabis-breathalyzer-2014-09-10

 

[gotbeerz001]

But I also don't think you should continue to do a job that requires so much of you mentally and physically, with such a severe injury that requires long term narcotic pain management to have any quality of life.

I get what you are saying, but I do not agree. One thing that often gets lost in translation here is Standard of Care and just what that means. One's personal idea re SOC (I need to be the best I can be for the good of...) is fine and well but is NOT the SOC required to function adequately and appropriately within a given system.

This forum often bashes Fire for a myriad of reasons (lazy, sub-par etc), but what you will never hear us advocate is throwing away good people because they were broken doing the job, especially if there is a reasonable and legal solution available. If the guy/gal working next to me who has put in 10/15/20 years of service (and exhibits the battle wounds associated with it) takes pain meds every day but can do the job to the industry/employer standard, well then I support them.

As a co-worker who cares about my team member, I will make efforts to be aware of signs of abuse; but even of these signs were Apparent, I would not change my tune. I would continue to support them in finding a plan to manage the situation (EAP etc). If it becomes unmanageable, then it is time to retire out of field work and be trained (on the employers dime) for a new function.

We do not throw away people broken by the system.

 

[LACoGurneyjockey]

I get what you are saying, but I do not agree. One thing that often gets lost in translation here is Standard of Care and just what that means. One's personal idea re SOC (I need to be the best I can be for the good of...) is fine and well but is NOT the SOC required to function adequately and appropriately within a given system.

This forum often bashes Fire for a myriad of reasons (lazy, sub-par etc), but what you will never hear us advocate is throwing away good people because they were broken doing the job, especially if there is a reasonable and legal solution available. If the guy/gal working next to me who has put in 10/15/20 years of service (and exhibits the battle wounds associated with it) takes pain meds every day but can do the job to the industry/employer standard, well then I support them.

As a co-worker who cares about my team member, I will make efforts to be aware of signs of abuse; but even of these signs were Apparent, I would not change my tune. I would continue to support them in finding a plan to manage the situation (EAP etc). If it becomes unmanageable, then it is time to retire out of field work and be trained (on the employers dime) for a new function.

We do not throw away people broken by the system.

I can completely respect that, and its a really honorable way to approach the situation. But...in my experience those medics taking large amounts of pain killers every day to be able to work are not performing at the industry standard. That's not to say it's impossible to require narcotics to get out of bed in the morning and still be able to adequately perform your job duties. But I have yet to see it, and that's really all I can base my opinions on.