Lying to 911 to avoid getting law enforcement

[CentralCalEMT]

I know there have been numerous threads about staging/waiting for law enforcement, they types of calls we stage on and other issues regarding scene safety.

My question is, have any of you out there had issues on a regular basis with people lying to 911 to not get law enforcement out there when they are needed? I realize EMD is only as good as the information that the caller gives them. Just last shift, I walked into a domestic violence event in progress because the called told the EMD that "his girlfriend fell from a bike yesterday and had back pain." When we arrive on scene, he has just finished beating her up and fled when we walked through the door. We ended up being OK, but it got me thinking. How often does this type of thing happen. This is the 3rd time in the past several months for me. Most other crews in my system have had similar issues. One was even chased out of the house by a man with a gun.

It seems that more and more, family members/friends/random 911 callers know what to say and how to downplay what is going on so that law enforcement does not get notified. They know if you report an assault, domestic, stabbing, overdose, suicide attempt, ect that the cops show up with EMS. However if you report a fall, sick person, food poisoning, fainting, etc they don't. It seems these people know how to play the system and it is dangerous to EMS. I find it hard to believe this is unique to my area (mid size semi rural city with several surrounding farm towns and one town in the mountains). How many of you have had similar issues?

This problem is compounded in our more rural areas where the sheriff can take 30 min or more to get there. In the city, we usually have law enforcement on scene within several minutes if we request. These new types of callers mean we have to be all the more diligent.

 

[chaz90]

I can't say I recall this ever happening to me. I definitely see how it is possible though and really don't know how it could be prevented. All we can do is stay aware of our surroundings, keep an exit strategy in mind, and always be prepared to leave if necessary.

 

[CentralCalEMT]

Yeah we were talking with the cops at the hospital afterwards and that's exactly the thing. It can't be prevented. You have to love it when the callers know how to outsmart 911.

 

[TheLocalMedic]

I've had it happen a handful of time. Just gotta backpedal if it isn't safe.

 

[EMT B]

couple of towns near me right now roll PD with EMS every call...maybe thats just cause im in the middle of nowhere west virginia?

 

[Sandog]

So let me get this straight. A guy is beating up his girlfriend, but all the while has the wherewithal to call 911 for help, and then continues with the beating. Upon your arrival this girlfriend beating boyfriend who called 911, flees the scene...

That is weird.

 

[brian328]

this has never happened to me, but if it did, i would leave the scene asap and request PD. if somebody is coming after us, we have many things we can use to defend ourselves (backboard, oxygen tank, etc). most of the time we arrive on scene (fire and ems) with at least 6 people, so we have numbers if necessary. again, that is completely LAST CASE scenario and you have no choice but to defend yourself or crew.

 

[CentralCalEMT]

No another family member on scene called 911 because they knew she was injured but did nothing to break up the fight. They gave 911 the story of the fall since they knew the cops would show up if they said he was beating her. I can see how from the way I worded it, it made it sound like the suspect called 911.

It was definitely one of those houses and families who you can tell have had many interactions with law enforcement in the past.

 

[Bullets]

Been there dont that, multiple times

Usually its some sort of pain. and it usually ends up being from a shooting or a stabbing

 

[Clipper1]

No another family member on scene called 911 because they knew she was injured but did nothing to break up the fight. They gave 911 the story of the fall since they knew the cops would show up if they said he was beating her. I can see how from the way I worded it, it made it sound like the suspect called 911.

It was definitely one of those houses and families who you can tell have had many interactions with law enforcement in the past.

This is very common for all types of domestic violence which is why almost every state has some type of statutes, resources and training for health care professionals.

What are your responsibilities in your state for domestic violence? Do you as a Paramedic have any obligations for reporting? If so does your company have a protocol for you to follow?

Other health care professionals generally get mandated education which they must update every year in the work place and for every license renewal.

Here is a link for California if you are uncertain about what to do or would like additional training.
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/Pages/DomesticViolenceTrainingandEducationProgram.aspx

Domestic violence is serious and sometimes it will involve the children also including the same physical and verbal abuse.

 

[fma08]

Last I checked, EMS personnel are mandatory reporters of any kind of violence (child abuse/neglect, sexual, elder abuse, domestic violence, etc.) It's your duty to get police involved if you suspect abuse/violence. Document, document, document, and be objective.

Check with you company and what their policy is.

 

[CentralCalEMT]

Yeah we notified PD immediately and they did make an arrest later that day.

 

[hops19]

Our police responds to most calls. Last week had to call ambulance to the school for a sports injury emergency and had 3 police officers show up before the ambulance arrived..

 

[CFal]

Ems here is only mandated to report child and elder abuse, not report domestic.

 

[DrankTheKoolaid]

Ems here is only mandated to report child and elder abuse, not report domestic.

What state is that?

 

[CFal]

Rhode Island

 

[unleashedfury]

PD rolls with us for the most part. Unless they are busy busy. We have PD on every EMS call. Whether its a stubbed toe, Or a guy with a knife sticking out of his throat.

In certain situations where there has been domestic violence reports or suspected illicit activity going on, PD is notified immediately since our dispatchers keep notes in the CAD about previous incidents.

Obviously there has been previous incidents there since the caller knew enough to outsmart the EMD to avoid a PD dispatch I have been in this situation before where a women was obviously beaten by her husband and denied the whole thing but on the way to the hospital she gave hints by the way she talked when I interviewed her. I pulled the nurse out to the hallway and told her my suspicions and the investigated further.

 

[EMDispatch]

EMDs can listen for subtle clues and obvious ones during questioning from tone of voice to plain lack of knowledge. It's weird when significant others stumble on questions about age, are too calm about a situation they're reporting, or change details. Dispatchers should also be checking premise histories and known hazards,and I also keep an ear on police channels. It's always suspicious when you get calls in immediate area of fights, robberies, or mvcs that are abandoned. We still end up missing some, but it's surprising how many can be identified before they reach dispatch.

If my gut instinct says something isn't 100% right, PD is going too.

 

[mycrofft]

Random shots (no pun intended):

Not required to report domestic abuse: domestic abuse is felony assault and battery with a fancy name. How about not reporting a felony assault and battery? If kids are in the home they are likely to be undergoing physical abuse and neglect as well, psychological abuse and deprivation definitely.

Plenty of things to defend ourselves with: when will this whack-a-mole stop popping up? We all think about it, but its a fantasy unless it's a disabled eighty year old we're talking about, or it's a lucky punch. Yeah, in a pinch to retreat, but never as part of the plan going in.
(I've heard of showing up with a knife to a gunfight, but never showing up at a fistfight with an E cylinder).:blink:

"Freestanding emergent clinics" (aka "doc in a boxes") used to get this all the time, probably still do. Folks show up thinking the police won't be called, especially if they pay cash or drop the victim and dash, or they try to direct practice. "Johnny just fell off the swing, I don't think those xrays are called for...".

A former co-worker related their clinic would delay opening about three times a year with a dead junkie lying across the doorway from the night before.