Aidey
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You know, in the grand scheme of things it is less damning to have a different persona for each forum rather than several different persona's all on the same one.
Looking for some guidance -- RN to EMT-B/Paramedic
- Thread starter kChoRN
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You teach but are not required to have even an Associates degree. Again another inconsistency in EMS of its educators. Your message would be you too can do all this and no college required.
Advocates for EMS although not very active and teach a few local organizations but also stress education as well as skills. Stress teamwork instead of "nurses are only order takers" and are only "bed pan skilled" mentality. You could probably use a lesson there.
Okay, let's all post our real names. Let's talk with the moderators and make it a rule you can only post if you give your real name. I doubt if I will post on an open forum such as this if it is required to give my real name, address and place of employment. Kyle, your profile is now very public as I stated before and you probably should not be so open. It can work to discredit you also.
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
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So wait a second. He works hard to get to a position where he can affect change and you turn tactics and attack him because he didn't use a college degree to get there? When has Kyle ever stressed anything but education and teamwork?
And Kyle has said that he stands behind everything he posts. Why are you so worried about his reputation? Speaking from experience?
And Kyle has said that he stands behind everything he posts. Why are you so worried about his reputation? Speaking from experience?
I've posted very publicly about that it's somewhat hypocritical for me to advocate the position I do without a degree. I encourage everyone I can to finish the degree before life gets in the way as happened to me. I'm attempting to sort college out as we speak.
Interesting how you know what I teach without ever sitting in one of my classes. I think you'll find I regularly speak of the team approach here, and have tremendous respect for providers of all levels. I'm in no way prepared to be a LTC LVN. But that doesn't mean I think they can be medics either.
As I've said again and again, I stand by the good and bad. I've grown since I started posting here. I think you would have to work very, very hard to use my current views to discredit me.
I never asked for any personal info. Only what you personally have done lately to help the EMS educational situation. I've yet to see an answer, but I've seen a lot of smoke and mirrors.
You asked for what I belong to and teach. My comments about your attitude is a direct reflection of what you post. You have posted mostly negative things about nurses and
. Anytime education comes into play you do your best to discredit as many professions as you can who have gone the distance to improve education and their profession.
Shame on the OP, an RN, for asking this question on an EMS forum and upsetting you.
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
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There is a HUGE difference between discrediting education, and speaking out against one profession taking over another one.
I read over the reponses over the last couple pages and just wanted to say a few things as I think it is relavent to the topic as a whole:
I personally, see a lot of similarity between LPN and the standard Paramedic training programs. There aren't a lot, if any pre-requisites, from my knowledge. The LPNs that I have worked with know the same stuff in the clinical setting, but where they often lack -- only sometimes -- is in the theoretical background. I feel like this may be the same with some of the more rudimentary Paramedic programs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is why there are degree programs for EMS and such now. At the end of the day, those Acute Care LPNs are just as good at their jobs as the RNs, I'm yet to see a huge difference in clinical ability.
3) I think the only didactic difference between RNs and Paramedics is the theoretical background in micro, chem, etc. Not all Paramedics are required to take that as part of a standardized curriculum outside of what is included within the program like many LPN/LVN programs also do.
4) Plenty of Paramedics that I know have gone on to become nurses, but I do not know of a single RN that has gone back to become a Paramedic. I wonder why that is. I personally think the demographics are different in the two fields and that some fields that are more male heavy -- Trauma, Wound Care, etc. -- also include nurses that are more likely to look into also being EMT-Ps.
5) I think that the ENTIRE argument about who is better or whatever pissing contest people want to go on lies within the prof organizations. From my understanding, ARNPs, advanced practice degrees, hell...even standardized BSN programs have created new horizons for nurses. From an academic standpoint, more and more nurses are pursuing advanced degrees and gaining autonomy in the states. I think that if Paramedics were better recognized by governments and organizations, then in-turn their own prof organizations invested in the individuals, then Paramedics would see similiar changes in their education requirements. I think one reason medics haven't been able to advance themselves as much as nurses in the last hundred years is because so many are employed directly by government or public funding programs like Fire Departments so the salaries aren't really what they deserve. Nurses, on the other hand, have gotten paid by a variety of sources. That extra cash means more money goes into the organizations when thoe RNs have some dough to throw around, I wonder if Paramedics have had the same chance -- The local governments don't give Medics and EMS personnel the same kind of recognition a they should, in my view. Bottom line: Paramedics deserve better pay and more respect from their employers.
6) Ideally, I think that Paramedics and Nurses should have a similiar education track. Kind of like dentists and physicians -- Have the medics split off and the nurses split off and do their own stuff after all of the foundational classes, make Baccalaureate Degrees in Emergent Care or Paramedic Studies a real thing -- Unless it already exists. Make avenues for Paramedics to make a B-line to become Physician Assistants similiarly to how Nurses have a fairly easy avenue to become Nurse Practitioners. Thoughts? Does this already exist?
7) At the end of the day, from the Army Medics I have collaborated with -- junior, senior, new, or seasoned -- the civilian Paramedics (EMT-Ps) and EMT-Bs, LPNs, and CNAs -- Not to mention all the other allied health care workers I have met in my work like RTs, OTs, PTs, etc. -- I think we all have a lot more in-common when it comes to education and that Excelsior Online College makes some sense when it lets other clinicians pursue an RN degree. I think that there should be more program for RNs to do that into other areas as well.
8) I didn't mean to start this heated debate, but I do appreciate the input. I posted specifically on an EMS forum instead of a nursing forum (like AllNurses.com) because I wanted the opinion of the subject matter experts: You guys. We all have our niche in the health care cycle and each merits respect.
Finally, I posted this just to get feedback on how I can cultivate the skills to be a good provider of emergency medical care. As a paramedic or otherwise, every clinician should be able to do that in my view -- I just was looking for some guidance from some subject matter experts
.
I personally, see a lot of similarity between LPN and the standard Paramedic training programs. There aren't a lot, if any pre-requisites, from my knowledge. The LPNs that I have worked with know the same stuff in the clinical setting, but where they often lack -- only sometimes -- is in the theoretical background. I feel like this may be the same with some of the more rudimentary Paramedic programs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is why there are degree programs for EMS and such now. At the end of the day, those Acute Care LPNs are just as good at their jobs as the RNs, I'm yet to see a huge difference in clinical ability.
3) I think the only didactic difference between RNs and Paramedics is the theoretical background in micro, chem, etc. Not all Paramedics are required to take that as part of a standardized curriculum outside of what is included within the program like many LPN/LVN programs also do.
4) Plenty of Paramedics that I know have gone on to become nurses, but I do not know of a single RN that has gone back to become a Paramedic. I wonder why that is. I personally think the demographics are different in the two fields and that some fields that are more male heavy -- Trauma, Wound Care, etc. -- also include nurses that are more likely to look into also being EMT-Ps.
5) I think that the ENTIRE argument about who is better or whatever pissing contest people want to go on lies within the prof organizations. From my understanding, ARNPs, advanced practice degrees, hell...even standardized BSN programs have created new horizons for nurses. From an academic standpoint, more and more nurses are pursuing advanced degrees and gaining autonomy in the states. I think that if Paramedics were better recognized by governments and organizations, then in-turn their own prof organizations invested in the individuals, then Paramedics would see similiar changes in their education requirements. I think one reason medics haven't been able to advance themselves as much as nurses in the last hundred years is because so many are employed directly by government or public funding programs like Fire Departments so the salaries aren't really what they deserve. Nurses, on the other hand, have gotten paid by a variety of sources. That extra cash means more money goes into the organizations when thoe RNs have some dough to throw around, I wonder if Paramedics have had the same chance -- The local governments don't give Medics and EMS personnel the same kind of recognition a they should, in my view. Bottom line: Paramedics deserve better pay and more respect from their employers.
6) Ideally, I think that Paramedics and Nurses should have a similiar education track. Kind of like dentists and physicians -- Have the medics split off and the nurses split off and do their own stuff after all of the foundational classes, make Baccalaureate Degrees in Emergent Care or Paramedic Studies a real thing -- Unless it already exists. Make avenues for Paramedics to make a B-line to become Physician Assistants similiarly to how Nurses have a fairly easy avenue to become Nurse Practitioners. Thoughts? Does this already exist?
7) At the end of the day, from the Army Medics I have collaborated with -- junior, senior, new, or seasoned -- the civilian Paramedics (EMT-Ps) and EMT-Bs, LPNs, and CNAs -- Not to mention all the other allied health care workers I have met in my work like RTs, OTs, PTs, etc. -- I think we all have a lot more in-common when it comes to education and that Excelsior Online College makes some sense when it lets other clinicians pursue an RN degree. I think that there should be more program for RNs to do that into other areas as well.
8) I didn't mean to start this heated debate, but I do appreciate the input. I posted specifically on an EMS forum instead of a nursing forum (like AllNurses.com) because I wanted the opinion of the subject matter experts: You guys. We all have our niche in the health care cycle and each merits respect.
Finally, I posted this just to get feedback on how I can cultivate the skills to be a good provider of emergency medical care. As a paramedic or otherwise, every clinician should be able to do that in my view -- I just was looking for some guidance from some subject matter experts
.
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No, I asked what you've done. You can be as general as you want. But again...nothing.
Obviously sarcasm is not your strong suit...
I DO have a serious issue with nursing role creep. Not individual nurses. But the ivory tower of the nursing profession is trying very hard to push everyone from physicians to CNAs aside in favor of RNs. As a paramedic I have a vested interest in this not happening.
Huh?!? I'm fairly certain I've always advocated for increased educational requirements. I have occasionally pointed out the difference in training models and how this may affect out-of-hospital care...but I've never tried to discredit an entire profession...
I voiced my opinion...which is what your doing. Heaven forbid...
Your doing a fine job at putting words in other peoples mouths. Perhaps if that energy was focused on helping educate paramedics you wouldn't have to hate them so much.
BTW...some of the best Nursing professors I have had were Medic-RNs. I have the utmost respect for Paramedics -- Military and Civilian -- that's why I posted on an EMS forum, yall.
I'm not sure what you mean about "nursing role creep", but that is not why I was looking into branching out and bridging into a Paramedic program.
I'm not sure what you mean about "nursing role creep", but that is not why I was looking into branching out and bridging into a Paramedic program.
Are there any bridge programs that you could reccomend that I look into? Florida would be nice, but...any would be helpful. There are plenty of Paramedic to RN Programs -- The State College I went to, in fact, has it set where LPNs and Paramedics can skip between one and two semesters of the four clinical semesters. I feel like there should be something similiar for RNs. No?
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VFlutter
Flight Nurse
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I wish some of our international members, who hold bachelors, would provide some information about the paramedic-nurse dynamic in their country. Does requiring degrees for paramedics stop nursing creep? Is there more respect for the profession. Based on the two education structures, do you feel a nurse could easily transition into a paramedic role? And vice versa
It is best to get the info from the credible sources which are in your area.
Aidey
Community Leader Emeritus
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Paramedics haven't been around nearly as long as nurses, so it is slightly unfair to compare how developed the fields are as a whole. Nurses have done a good job of creating advanced education requirements, but there is a down side to that, which is that the increased education has been used to "creep" into other areas that are not traditionally nursing.
There are many non-RN health care roles, such as RTs, Radiologists etc. Through the years it has been argued on a national scale that RNs should be allowed to do all of those things too, based on their RN education. In reality many of those programs are stand alone multi year programs. There has also been some push to require that people in those roles become RNs too. Does that help explain creep?
Considering nurses are a major part of some other EMS systems, I think it speaks volumes but then so does the education to get there.
In the UK, Emergency Care Practitioner can be either a Paramedic or nurse.
The Netherlands has an interesting system.
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=22081
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VFlutter
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You didn't start anything. It's a constantly reoccurring discussion/debate.
Not a problem, you just stepped off in a constant sore spot. For the record I don't like any type of bridge program be it medic to RN, RN to medic, medic to Amazon witch doctor, ect. Have the respect to go through the full Monty.
Look for a college based program, usually a stronger education anyway.
VFlutter
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There is nothing disrespectful about trying to get credit for material already covered. There is no point waisting X amount of time going over basic sciences that you have already passed at a higher level.
Like I used as an example before...Anatomy, physiology, microbiology, pathophysiology, biology, Chemistry, and pharmacology were all separate 4 hour college classes (most with extensive labs) for me. Why would I sit through a paramedic class going over these topics when they would not even begin to scratch the surface of what I learned in the stand alone classes?