L.A. County sheriff vows crackdown on armed deputies drinking alcohol

[VentMedic]

The threads involving duty to act, weapons, protection and professional courtesy came to mind when I read this.

Would you cover for an intoxicated co-worker or one who was carrying a weapon unlawfully?

Would you expect professional courtesy for either an intoxication or weapons offense from LEOs?

Do you agree with the union's postion on this situation?

What would you do if an intoxicated off duty LEO or EMS co-worker showed up in their car to assist at a scene?
A. Try to handle it yourself as a profession courtesy?
B. Report it to LEOs and/or EMS Supervisor?




L.A. County sheriff vows crackdown on armed deputies drinking alcohol

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-influence11-2008nov11,0,235730.story?track=rss

Responding to a spate of shootings by allegedly intoxicated off-duty deputies, Lee Baca plans to implement a policy banning deputies from carrying firearms when they are drinking.
By Richard Winton
November 11, 2008

As a result of that incident and several others, the sheriff said, he plans to implement one of the nation's toughest policies barring deputies from carrying firearms when they are under the influence of alcohol.

The deputies' union adamantly opposes any restrictions on a deputy's ability to carry a weapon while off-duty. But Baca said he's determined to get his way, noting that there has been a "very disturbing" rise in alcohol-related misconduct among his deputies. This year alone, 61 deputies have been arrested on alcohol-related charges. Of those, 39 were accused of driving under the influence, nearly twice the average of recent years. Many of those arrested were armed.

Michael Gennaco, head of the Office of Independent Review, which monitors the Sheriff's Department, said common sense dictates that the new policy is a good idea, given the rise in alcohol-related incidents involving deputies. Under Baca's proposed policy, which law enforcement experts say is among the most restrictive in the nation, deputies would be banned from carrying a firearm when they are under the influence of alcohol, medication or controlled substance to the extent that they cannot exercise "reasonable care and control of a weapon."

That means deputies could not touch a gun if they have a blood alcohol level of 0.08% or greater, the state limit for driving a vehicle, the sheriff said.

Union leaders say the sheriff's plan would put deputies in danger.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-influence11-2008nov11,0,235730.story?track=rss

 

[LucidResq]

What would you do if an intoxicated off duty LEO or EMS co-worker showed up in their car to assist at a scene?
A. Try to handle it yourself as a profession courtesy?
B. Report it to LEOs and/or EMS Supervisor?

I would consider all of the above. Definitely EMS supervisor. I would personally confront them first, however, and tell them that they will not be acting in the call nor driving. I would try to arrange them a ride home and if they decided to try to drive themselves, I would likely be contacting LE. Drunk driving is not something I take lightly. Same thing goes for drunk-working-especially-in-public-safety.

That means deputies could not touch a gun if they have a blood alcohol level of 0.08% or greater, the state limit for driving a vehicle, the sheriff said.

Union leaders say the sheriff's plan would put deputies in danger.

That's BS. By law, operating a vehicle under the influence is illegal because doing something that requires plenty of focus and coordination, and can easily kill multiple people and cause lots of damage, while drunk is a bad idea. What's the difference between carrying a gun and driving a car? I think it's okay if an LEO happens to be carrying off-duty when he has a beer. I don't think it's okay if he has too many beers and gets drunk while packing heat. .08 is a reasonable level to set.

 

[Sapphyre]

I don't have the regulation in front of me, but, in cal, the general public possessing a CCW are not allowed to carry while intoxicated. Why should off duty cops be any different. BTW, LA County SO are NOT required to carry off duty anyway....

 

[AnthonyM83]

Contact PD and let them handle it. They can make the determination about whether he's to drunk to drive or be armed better than I can. They're also better equipped to give him a ride home or take his firearm for the night. They can also find out of this is an ongoing problem and if it needs to go up the chain of command. There's also less of a liability issue that way.

 

[EMTCop86]

Would you cover for an intoxicated co-worker or one who was carrying a weapon unlawfully?

Depends on what the intoxicated co-worker was doing while intoxicated and no I would not cover for someone carrying a firearm unlawfully.

Would you expect professional courtesy for either an intoxication or weapons offense from LEOs?

No one should expect professional courtesy, if you get it then great but to expect it is wrong.

Do you agree with the union's postion on this situation?

I understand the union not wanting deputies to be restricted regarding their firearms but there is an obvious problem that needs to be solved and I believe Baca's plan is a good one.

What would you do if an intoxicated off duty LEO or EMS co-worker showed up in their car to assist at a scene?

They are driving under the influence to get to the scene correct? No doubt I would report it to the LEO's or EMS's supervisor. This person was putting lives at risk by driving and should not be allowed to be let go with just a "professional courtesy"

 

[EMTCop86]

BTW, LA County SO are NOT required to carry off duty anyway....

Correct but I know very very few officers who would NOT carry while off duty.

 

[firecoins]

Would you cover for an intoxicated co-worker or one who was carrying a weapon unlawfully?

No. I would not cover for them. But I also would not turn them in.

 

[Jon]

Would you cover for an intoxicated co-worker or one who was carrying a weapon unlawfully?

Depends. Lets look at the intoxicated co-worker. If I had a partner who showed up and was less than sober, I'd like to think I'd pull them aside and tell them that they needed to leave... I'd be willing to tell the boss they were sick and couldn't work... and not get into the ETOH... if I did this, it would be a one-time thing, and they'd still have their *** in a wringer for not calling out with enough notice.

Would you expect professional courtesy for either an intoxication or weapons offense from LEOs?

Expect it? No. That is why I DON'T drive DUI... because I've seen the effects enough... and even if I don't wreck my car and kill myself or someone else - if I get stopped and busted, I loose my job... and can't work as an EMT/Medic for 4 years, until the state will let me drive an emergency vehicle again.

Weapons offense? I don't commit them. I have a LCTF (PA's CCW license) and I don't carry on duty. I avoid firearms when consuming alcohol because it impairs my judgment, and that is a risky game.

Do you agree with the union's postion on this situation?

No. It sounds like they might have a problem in the department already.. they should work on that.

The policy seems to allow an officer to have A DRINK with a firearm... not a bunch. I question the wisdom of combining ETOH and guns, but that seems to allow a little wiggle room.

What would you do if an intoxicated off duty LEO or EMS co-worker showed up in their car to assist at a scene?
A. Try to handle it yourself as a profession courtesy?
B. Report it to LEOs and/or EMS Supervisor?

Depends on a lot of things, and I'm not sure.