Japan Relief

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TornWingedAngel1

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What’s up, everyone? I was just wondering if anyone knew about any EMS efforts for Japan relief.

I haven’t done a google search for it yet, but I figured I’d post here, too to see if anyone knew anything.
 
I know LA County USAR is over there. Some medical reserve corps may head over there too.
 
There's no good use for standard American style EMS personnel over there without extensive training in additional fields. EMS is not geared towards or trained to deal with the sorts of issues one encounters by the time you get over to the other side of the world in situations such as this. This is one of those situations where the best thing to do is to donate money to those who are trained and qualified to handle long term disaster recovery and not let your big hearts, small minds (not speaking specifically about the OP, but in general) and urge to seek out excitement and adventure get in the way of actually helping these folks.
 
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Yeah, as I did more research about it I could see why. It's just I'm broke and donation aren't exactly an option without overdrafting my bank account at the moment, haha. So I figured I'd donate my time.

But doesn't seem feasible after everything I've read. ::shrugs:: It was worth a shot.
 
Unless you're a nurse, public health professional, doc or have some skill outside of health care that might be useful (structural engineering, etc), you're not going to be of much use. Sorry.
 
Going to help Japan is like Haiti coming to help us.

Nippon has probably the best emergency and disaster response force in the world. They also have a low opinion about people who get excited, act disorderly, or get out of line (literally and figuratively).

As always, don't be a SUV (spontaneous unaffiliated volunteer). What Japan needs will be money and logistic help, maybe. Expressions of support may also be in order.

USAR will be admitted by Japan because they will not want to look unappreciative, but by the time we get there, what they will need are cadaver dogs and handlers who speak Japanese.

Sasha.......?
 
When seeing the devastation in Japan on TV I have to admit it is very tempting to jump on a plane (I fly for free because of my job) and go help, but as others here have said all I would be doing is sucking up resources that could be better used for the far more qualified responders that are there or on their way. Logically I know there is very little good I could do in person but emotionally it kills me to sit here and feel helpless while I watch those poor people on TV put their lives back together.
 
You also have to ask yourself if we are looking at a possible Chernobyl-type disaster here with the nuclear power plants failing at the rate that they are....I would love to go help, but then again, I ain't too keen on being around those plants if and when they finally do have a complete meltdown.....
 
frostbiteEMT said:
You also have to ask yourself if we are looking at a possible Chernobyl-type disaster here with the nuclear power plants failing at the rate that they are....I would love to go help, but then again, I ain't too keen on being around those plants if and when they finally do have a complete meltdown.....
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Any credible evidence of that or are you just listen to some of the less educated and more fear mongering pundits? Everything I've seen says that it's not very likely going to turn out like Chernobyl.
 
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Logically I know there is very little good I could do in person but emotionally it kills me to sit here and feel helpless while I watch those poor people on TV put their lives back together.
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Then turn the channel.
 
bigbaldguy said:
Ahh the ignore it and it goes away method I didn't think of that one. I think I'll stay tuned in thanks :)
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If you can't be part of the solution and it's stressing you out, then don't focus on it. I'm not saying we should ignore it but if it's bothering you then why continue to spend time on it if you don't have to?
 
usafmedic45 said:
Any credible evidence of that or are you just listen to some of the less educated and more fear mongering pundits? Everything I've seen says that it's not very likely going to turn out like Chernobyl.
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I am just being cautious, that's all...I know the risk of it turning out to be like Chernobyl is very small, due to the differences in the reactor designs. Chernobyl had inherent design flaws, the least of which was the use of graphite to slow the reaction. This plant may not be heading down that path, but I would much rather obey the spirit of my "hazmat rule of thumb", which is "If I can place my thumb over the scene, and it not be covered, then I need to back up another half mile...." In this case, I will hang out here in the US....that should be plenty far enough....
 
As far as I know, I'm the only forum member here with any experience in nuclear power. While Chernobyl is what leaps to peoples minds, what is happening in Fukushima Dai-ichi is more like what happened at Three Mile Island, at this point, although it's likely to get worse unless they can restore cooling in some method.

This is especially critical now that fuel rods are exposed http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42066534/ns/world_news-asia-pacific/?gt1=43001 (for clarification, radiation does not "spew" out from a reactor or any other source)
Detectors showed 11,900 microsieverts of radiation three hours after the blast, up from just 73 microsieverts beforehand, Kinjo said. He said there was no immediate health risk because the higher measurement was less radiation that a person receives from an X-ray. He said experts would worry about health risks if levels exceed 100,000 microsieverts.
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The radiation that is being released is 1/10 of the levels that cause concern, and while any exposure to radiation entails risk, at this point I think officials are being cautious out of the fear associated with nuclear energy.

For comparision, 1,000 microsieverts = 1 REM. Here is what nuclear energy workers in the US are allowed to receive on an annual basis
(http://www.jlab.org/div_dept/train/rad_guide/dose.html) While the amount being leaked may seem higher than what a US worker is allowed to receive, radiation drops off dramatically over distance. In the military we used TDS to minimize our exposure. Minimize your Time in the radiation field, maximize your Distance from the source, and increase Shielding.

What is a concern in this type of situation is contamination. Contamination is small radioactive particles that can be carried on wind or water currents. A good way to visualize this is that radiation is the smell, contamination is the pile of poo creating the odor.
 
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I go to church with a nuclear engineer who works as a private uranium broker, nuclear security consultant and general atomic energy guru. We were talking about the events in Japan and he was saying it is one of the best places that it could happen. The Japanese are very good about handling major incidents and even though they are up against a pretty good situation, they are maintaining control as best as anyone can.

This incident almost does not compare to Chernobyl in several ways. First, the disaster at Chernobyl was cause by the reactor going from less than 1% operating power to over 1,000% in less than a second. What had happened was the reactor was poisoning itself with Xenon gas, a neutron "absorber." As the plant operators brought the reactor back online after being virtually shut down, they began to withdraw the control rods. Unbeknown to them however, the Xenon in the reactor vessel was absorbing all the free neutrons not absorbed by the control rods. As a result, the operators overrode the safety stops and withdrew most of the rods all the way. However, between one "generation" of neutrons and the next every molecule of free Xenon was used up and in an instantaneous moment, a runaway reaction occurred. This generated unbelievable heat, instantly flashing all the coolant water to steam, blowing the room off the containment structure and blowing the reactor core apart. The reaction of course stopped when the core was no longer dense enough to maintain criticality and was instead scattered hither and yon across the Soviet countryside.

What is happening in Japan is the on site diesel backup power system was washed away (quite literally) and the plant operators were forced to resort to so-called "doomsday procedures" which is their worst case scenario plan. It results in the destruction of the reactor, but it in all probability prevents a total meltdown. The tough part was the fact that the low pressure coolant injection system failed, and all that was left was the high pressure system. That is ok, except for the fact that they could not allow the reactor to loose pressure as the high pressure system will not operate at low pressures. However, the rub is that they then had to release high pressure steam, which unfortunately vented into the coolant loop and was condensed and sent back into the reactor coolant loop. Eventually though the coolant becomes the same temperature as the fuel and no longer cools it. So what they did was vent all the pressure in the reactor and begin to flood it with seawater. The explosion everyone saw was nothing more than 300,000 cubic feet of hydrogen exploding due (probably) to an electrical arc when the pumps in the containment building were started. (Hydrogen is a byproduct of the breakdown of water into H2 and O2 by the radiation). Flooded with several million cubic feet of seawater which will be replaced frequently, the reactor will slowly cool over the next five or so years and probably eventually end up sealed in concrete and good to go.

The way I understand the situation over there (at least as of Sunday morning. Things do change awful fast.....) was they were attempting to prevent a complete meltdown. A Chernobyl-like disaster was not even anticipated at that time. (And I am assuming it still is not.)
 
We need a nuclear thread

I read both Poul Anderson and Grigori Medvedev's accounts of Chernobyl, vey enlightening. Two concepts many people have hard time getting their brains around: the difference between graphite and water moderated reactors, and why neutrons have to be slowed down (and what happens when too many slow down).

Chernobyl, like most if not all USSR reactors, is graphite moderated. The hydrogen explosion set off a cascade of events which included the moderator (graphite bricks) burning, and threw them and their dust into the air and surrounding areas (including Northern Europe). The control rods were frozen in place mechanically due to heat and then blast damage so they were useless even if they had SCRAM'ed. There was no nuclear explosion.

US Navy style (water moderated) reactors can produce hydrogen explosions, if the explosion does not ruin the mechanical structure, and as long as the proper water situation is somehow applied, the reactor can hopefully be controlled to some extent. Better to vent vapor than combustion byproducts of fuel and graphite.

At any rate, ths will be tricky for the Japanese and their government socially, politically, and economically. The nuclear plant had a history including fudging of figures which will be figured prominently, even though this disaster is due to building a reactor on a volcanic earthquake prone location like Japan, or New Zealand, or parts of California.

PS: Sometimes "It just sucks to be them".
 
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Good deal!

California has a few plants, and a couple of embarassments; the former site of Atomics International in the Simi Valley is one, and Rancho Seco SE of Sacramento is another.
 
Newsboy said:
I know LA County USAR is over there. Some medical reserve corps may head over there too.
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My MRC has posted a notice saying get our stuff together, we might be going. We also have 5 volunteer SAR K9 teams from our area too. The K9 teams are from Ventura county and their handlers are mostly LA County FD.
 
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