I've Been Served!!!!

[crazycajun]

WOW! Had a knock on the door about an hour ago and it was the local Sheriff's Office. Seems that a little over 7 months ago I worked an MVC. PT was a 33 yo Female from Pakistan. I remember she was unconscious and had a RR of somewhere around 9. I remember her having lacerations to the face and chest, fractured tib/fib. I remember cutting off garments to control bleeding. It seems this is where I made my mistake. I am being sued for not respecting her beliefs and cultural foundations. I am accused of violating her civil rights and she is seeking damages due to her husband leaving because she was seen by another man. I thought this was a joke at first but it is very real. I have a meeting with the county attorney after lunch to see if the county will stand behind me or throw me to the wolves. It is sad that this can happen in the United States. I simply did my job and now someone wants me to pay for it. No one at the scene asked me not to treat her. She was unable to tell me not to treat her. How can I be wrong?

 

[legion1202]

Thats :censored::censored::censored::censored:ty!!! I`m hoping your union rep is involved and that they back you..

 

[Handsome Rob]

holy crap! This sucks. What was her mental status upon arrival? If she was altered, treatment would completely fall under implied consent. WTFO?!

 

[crazycajun]

Thats :censored::censored::censored::censored:ty!!! I`m hoping your union rep is involved and that they back you..

There is no union here.

 

[crazycajun]

holy crap! This sucks. What was her mental status upon arrival? If she was altered, treatment would completely fall under implied consent. WTFO?!

This is the problem. Even though she was unconscious, her attorney claims her religion is common knowledge because of the vast media reports on the subject. He claims that because of this, if her status would have been un-altered she would have denied consent therefore the implied consent rule would not apply.

 

[dixie_flatline]

I know it sucks and you probably want to vent/get advice on here, but I'd be wary of posting any details whatsoever to a public forum like this. Be careful and good luck.

 

[JohnJ]

It's ridiculous how you can save a person's life and still manage to get into trouble. Can't refuse to help her and you can't help her. Can't win for losing.

 

[abckidsmom]

Well, this should be interesting. Probably, you don't want to talk about it anymore on here because if it's for real, it'll be national news in a couple of days.

Google finds this place right easily.

 

[crazycajun]

Well, this should be interesting. Probably, you don't want to talk about it anymore on here because if it's for real, it'll be national news in a couple of days.

Google finds this place right easily.

Understood. My sister is an attorney. She claims as long as I don't state names, dates, times or place I am OK. Just want to give others a heads up to be careful. If this does go to court and it holds up I am done with the medical field. I can't work like that.

 

[flyfisher151]

I hope the best outcome for you. That is ridiculous! A simple 'Thank You" would have been nice, but instead you get papers. What is the world coming to?

 

[ArcticKat]

Perhaps you will find this reassuring.

http://www.islamic-laws.com/Books/Islamicmedicalrulings.htm#_Toc261574937

 

[Euclidus]

Wow, that is preposterous! It sounds like this attorney is trying to open Pandora's Box. If this kind of thinking is upheld, where do you draw the line? How can you possibly even know what an unconscious person's religious beliefs and customs are? You will be in my thoughts and prayers! I hope this goes quickly and smoothly for you.

 

[medicRob]

Actually, cultural and religious beliefs play a big role in our delivery of health care. For instance, Jehovah's Witnesses will not accept blood or blood products. Individuals in some faiths, just as the one described above, believe that no man is to see you exposed except your husband, otherwise it (in their eyes) brings disgrace to not only the husband, but to the entire family, resulting in a separation (or in the right countries an honor killing) to maintain honor.

Whether or not you agree with it, it is a hard cold fact.

Now, as far as your situation goes crazycajun, you were just following ABCDE, and the E is for expose. As long as you did so in a manner (where clinical situation permits) that wasn't blatantly exposing the pt for every one on scene to see (and sometimes we have to strip them outside the rig, so this isn't always the case), there won't be an issue.

Your county attorney is going to back you. He/She must prove that you acted in the best interest of the patient, and had ample reason to expose the patient (A normal part of a trauma assessment involving MVC).

My advice, from one professional to another is for you not to worry, see the county attorney, and try not to disclose too many details about the situation to others before being advised as to whether or not that is okay by the county attorney. EMS Providers get subpoenaed all the time, it is to be expected in the litigious society we live in today. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[Aidey]

Assuming to know what an unconscious persons religion is seems a bit crazy.

To use the Jehovah's Witness example. Say there is an auto-ped, and the patient is unconscious without anything identifying their religion or medical wishes. The patient is brought to the trauma center where they receive blood as part of an emergency operation. The hospital had no reason to believe the patient would not want the standard of care provided.

If you had assumed this woman to be of a certain religion becuase of her ethnicity or dress I'm pretty sure the ACLU would be wanting to have a word with you.

My guess is that you will be fine in the long run.

 

[nineball55]

That's a bunch of bull. I hope it gets thrown out or the charges dropped.

 

[medicRob]

Assuming to know what an unconscious persons religion is seems a bit crazy.

To use the Jehovah's Witness example. Say there is an auto-ped, and the patient is unconscious without anything identifying their religion or medical wishes. The patient is brought to the trauma center where they receive blood as part of an emergency operation. The hospital had no reason to believe the patient would not want the standard of care provided.

If you had assumed this woman to be of a certain religion becuase of her ethnicity or dress I'm pretty sure the ACLU would be wanting to have a word with you.

My guess is that you will be fine in the long run.

Also, when it comes down too it, if I had given blood to a jehovahs witness to save their life, I still couldn't be held liable because I did what was in the best interest of the patient.

 

[Handsome Rob]

If you had assumed this woman to be of a certain religion becuase of her ethnicity or dress I'm pretty sure the ACLU would be wanting to have a word with you.

Exactly right. There is no way in hell that that would not be a problem. All it would take is for one EMT/Medic to withhold treatment from a person in religous garb and have that person die, then where are we. My standpoint, you don't want treatment, then either live someplace where your cultural beliefs are well known (the Middle East for example) or tattoo "DNFW" on your forehead...

 

[legion1202]

First of all.. How would you know a person beliefs.. You would be profiling if every middle eastern person was assumed to believe in Islam. I can understand if she refused care.. But if its life threatening wouldn't you have the police involved even if she denies if you cant get a female medic to help out. I`m not up to speed on letting someone bleed out and refusing care. It would be like letting some kill them self.

Second... If anything there suing the wrong people.. They should sue who ever caused the crash that put her in that situation. Although that would be lame too. This just opened up a huge can of worms... 2012 acls guidelines are now gonna require you to find out what kind of religion they are before doing your CAB.

If a familiy member who was not power of attorney told you the deal would you have done something different? Are they going after the hospital? Was the ER doc a male?

 

[medicRob]

Exactly right. There is no way in hell that that would not be a problem. All it would take is for one EMT/Medic to withhold treatment from a person in religous garb and have that person die, then where are we. My standpoint, you don't want treatment, then either live someplace where your cultural beliefs are well known (the Middle East for example) or tattoo "DNFW" on your forehead...

Totally unrelated, but every time I see your name, I am reminded of a service I used to work for. I was on the back end of a 24 hour shift and was in the bathroom putting product in my hair when the tones went off, we were up. My partner found me in the bathroom putting product in my hair, since that day, I am known at that service as, "Hansome" <-- That is how it is spelled. ha ha.

Beats the hell out of what they were gonna call me, "Sweetie Pie". lol.

</derail>

 

[usafmedic45]

Individuals in some faiths, just as the one described above, believe that no man is to see you exposed except your husband, otherwise it (in their eyes) brings disgrace to not only the husband, but to the entire family, resulting in a separation (or in the right countries an honor killing) to maintain honor.

Actually most mainstream Muslim sects tend to view "necessary exposure" in the course of medical treatment as an exception to this rule.