thegreypilgrim
Forum Asst. Chief
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That is, if there were some way to make public (in a convincing way) the dismal training and practice standards that characterize EMS as it exists throughout the US?
Is it ethical to inform the general public of the problems in EMS?
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abckidsmom
Dances with Patients
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Not to the point of slander, becaue some of the opinions held by many of us are just that: opinions.
I think it's unethical to keep the information to ourselves, especially as many communities are shelling out mega, mega bucks to have full time paid services.
I think it's unethical to keep the information to ourselves, especially as many communities are shelling out mega, mega bucks to have full time paid services.
samiam
Amazing Member
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I don't think the public even cares. That is how it has gone on for so long.
Plus as soon as you compare it to the rest of the developed world, you'll get some idiot waving a flag talking about how nobody is better than the US and the sheeple who desperately need to believe that.
If that doesn't work your opponents will try to se their hero factor and compare it to something totally unrelated like:
"All of us that died when the world trade center collapse demonstrates we are doing our best" or some other crazy argument that has no logical connection.
If you take the route of demonstrating what other nations get for the cost, you might also find that instead of demanding the same, they just reduce funds to EMS making change even more difficult.
Is it ethical to inform the public?
Sure it is.
Will it provoke the change you want?
I doubt it.
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Ethical? Totally.
Will we see positive change by whining? No.
If we educate the folks in charge - from the city management and FD management, to our own bosses who've been off the street too long, we might see a change.
Further, if each of us does what WE can to provoke change and better patient care, we are likely to see some success.
EMS keeps evolving. We need to progress with it.
Will we see positive change by whining? No.
If we educate the folks in charge - from the city management and FD management, to our own bosses who've been off the street too long, we might see a change.
Further, if each of us does what WE can to provoke change and better patient care, we are likely to see some success.
EMS keeps evolving. We need to progress with it.
I'd be hesitant to tell the public about our lack of education. If they knew how little they were getting for their money, they would be offended by the cost of an ambulance txp. What I would do is expose the lack of staffing/deployment, holdovers, low pay, how we need to work several jobs just to survive, the detrimental health effects of being abruptly woken up repeatedly at night (the catecholamine slam stresses the heart, circadian rhythm disturbance, working in bright lights at 0 dark 30), how we can work 24, 36, 48 hours in a row, and then go right to another job for another 12-24.
Soco_and_Lime
Forum Probie
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As the people who pay for the EMS squads, whether through their taxes or for paid services, the people have every right to know what they're getting for their money.
If people really went after their town's EMS squads like they do the schools, they would find out about the types of problems and mismanagement that occur.
As others have said, it's not that the people aren't fully capable of auditing their local squads, it's just that they don't care. I think it's a catch 22 in that they don't care because the only reason they don't care about the mismanagement is because they don't know.
If people really went after their town's EMS squads like they do the schools, they would find out about the types of problems and mismanagement that occur.
As others have said, it's not that the people aren't fully capable of auditing their local squads, it's just that they don't care. I think it's a catch 22 in that they don't care because the only reason they don't care about the mismanagement is because they don't know.
firetender
Community Leader Emeritus
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I see value in keeping in the public's face. I think it's important we cultivate relationships with the Press in good times and bad. It is far easier to recover favorable public opinion for your service when you have had, for example, an article every month for the last year bringing people into the work; therefore showing what you do.
If your service is weak, your service is weak. You don't have to be the one to spill the beans, but sometimes, it's important somehow to let the people affected by the lapse to know and understand their vulnerabilities.
I think moving public opinion begins with education that fosters appreciation.
If your service is weak, your service is weak. You don't have to be the one to spill the beans, but sometimes, it's important somehow to let the people affected by the lapse to know and understand their vulnerabilities.
I think moving public opinion begins with education that fosters appreciation.
Frozennoodle
Sir Drinks-a-lot
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A mark of a true profession is self-regulation an setting it's own standards of education. We still rely on the DOT to set our curriculum. How are we ever going to become true professionals if we can't motivate ourselves to higher standards? I don't see this a a public relations issue but a problem with the way we think of ourselves and the lack of consensus in our ranks to do anything about it.
Well said........
I agree with the above posters. Think, however, how many of us would be out of a job if they raised educational standards. There are many still (me included) who would be more than willing to meet said standards because I truly love THIS profession and making THIS my life...that being said, if they raised educational standards to the point where we'd all be getting B.S. in Paramedicine with more intense training (just hypothetical, I don't know what you guys think we should raise standards TO), there would obviously be an outcry of EMS personnel looking for higher wages even more than now). Imagine the cost of an ambulance there...
I guess the overall problem is: emergencies aren't very profitable, and as wisdom, knowledge, and educational standards increase, profit margins may decrease, leaving nobody left in the field. Kind of a give or take idea, that I'm not sure I can put into words. :blush:
I guess the overall problem is: emergencies aren't very profitable, and as wisdom, knowledge, and educational standards increase, profit margins may decrease, leaving nobody left in the field. Kind of a give or take idea, that I'm not sure I can put into words. :blush:
Frozennoodle
Sir Drinks-a-lot
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If I were to be the king of EMS I would bring the level of basics up to an I/85 curriculum over 2 semesters of school. Call them EMT's. Leave Paramedic alone and maybe add an aditional semester of A&P and Patho. Then a third level, call the
Fruit stand vendors or arborists or whatever, with 4-6 years of cirrciulim similar to that of a Nurse Practioner with an Emergency Response slant and put them on sprint trucks. The money is there, the money is there in other countries that have similar systems. The billing for those providers would reflect their skill level and skills preformed. Is it something we want to do? That's up to us, that's up to us to do the feasibility research, see what the economic impact would be, blah blah blah. We have to lay out the curriculum, prove its feasible, prove it's economically viable, and above all prove that our patients benefit from it.
Fruit stand vendors or arborists or whatever, with 4-6 years of cirrciulim similar to that of a Nurse Practioner with an Emergency Response slant and put them on sprint trucks. The money is there, the money is there in other countries that have similar systems. The billing for those providers would reflect their skill level and skills preformed. Is it something we want to do? That's up to us, that's up to us to do the feasibility research, see what the economic impact would be, blah blah blah. We have to lay out the curriculum, prove its feasible, prove it's economically viable, and above all prove that our patients benefit from it.
The reason EMS is so supported in other countries is not jst the educational level, but the value they bring in handling things other than "worthy emergencies" and in doing so save a lot more money then they cost.
There is absolutely no reason to pay EMS providers anymore for the level of service provided today. Honestly, I think it should be much less all around, including reimbursement for transport.
terrible one
Always wandering
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wow! hate to be in that system
Frozennoodle
Sir Drinks-a-lot
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I totally agree with that.
I didn't read the thread but i am guessing you got problem with low wages ?Do you really think that public cares? All they care is when they dial 911 that an ambulance come and take them to the hospital. They do not care if you make minimum wage or 1 million an hour. There is nothing unethical about telling the public your opinion just do not be surprise when they turn blind ear on it.
wow, wow, wow, wow. The city do not contract with private ems? Something seriously do not sound right. If the market needs ems so much why is there not a private company getting contracted for service? I am sure there is money to be made by billing the insurance etc. Something is screwed up with this picture.
Naota_X
Forum Crew Member
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there starting to get some private companies into detriot for backup i work for one of them atm
That is good to hear, I hope they get enough private ems in the city to lower the respond time to national average or better. After watching the video I was a bit confused, do Detroit not send fire trucks to each 911 call?
Thats not the way it is here in Williamson County Texas
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