Is EMS Medicine or Public Safety or both

[Shishkabob]

Which is exactly why I brought them up.

No one can deny that they are medicine. But are they not public safety as well? Do they not protect the public, even vicariously, from infectious diseases?



You have yet to answer my question;

What's so bad about being considered part of public safety?


Anyone who looks down on you for being public safety is an idiot who doesn't deserve your time of day anyway.

 

[fortsmithman]

Ok. Let's try this.


A Public safety as enforced by the FD includes inspections and code enforcement. Those codes are laws.

Here in the NWT our FD's do not enforce any legislation. The NWT Fire Marshal's Office does all the enforcement.

 

[CAOX3]

I would say nothing usually in public safety there is usually more funding, better benefits and retirement.

 

[atropine]

LAFD is public saftey, which provides ems

 

[VentMedic]

http://www.ems1.com/ems-advocacy/ar...would-extend-benefits-to-paramedics-families/

MONTPELIER, Vt. — Vermont's two U.S. senators are sponsoring legislation that would extend death benefits to relatives of paramedics who work for nonprofit ambulance services and are killed in the line of duty.

The legislation is named after Vermont paramedic Dale Long, who was killed last week when the ambulance he was driving veered off the road and hit a tree.

The program was created more than three decades ago to provide help to family members of police officers, firefighters and medics who are killed or disabled while working, but only public safety officers are eligible.

The bill would extend the benefits to employees of nonprofits, affecting about 20,000 EMS workers nationally. It would also provide benefits to workers disabled on the job.

 

[Ridryder911]

Safety =/= law.



And again I ask you, what does it matter if we get considered part of public safety?

Are you offended as such? Can you not still practice medicine while people think you are part of public safety?

What would you consider the CDC and the WHO? They are medicine, which also has a place in public safety, yet neither makes / enforces laws.

What about SAR teams? They make or enforce no laws, provide medicinal services, and are still considered part of public safety.

Unfortunately, unlike most EMS providers are not familiar with the categories of health care providers. I doubt most of those in EMS even understand CDC and WHO are Public Health role. As one that have worked with both agencies I can assure you they would never acclaim to be safety or even near it. Again, I find it amusing for those that are barely in the EMS profession to attempt to define what EMS is. When in truth, most lack the education to be able to really make that determination.

R/r 911

 

[Shishkabob]

Rid;

I have asked you time and time again to tell me what is so bad about being considered a part of public safety, and you have yet to say. There's one of 2 possibilities for that. You're ignoring the question, or you CAN'T come up with a reason.



Not a single thing you have said yet has convinced me that it is a bad thing to be considered public safety.

 

[VentMedic]

I have asked you time and time again to tell me what is so bad about being considered a part of public safety, and you have yet to say.

He has already given numerous examples and definitions. He is not against Public Safety. EMS by itself just does not fit the definition as defined by mission statements, statute and other legislation. This is why I have been posting links where exceptions are being made to allow those in EMS agencies that are not considered Public Safety to be included for LODD benefits for their survivors.

 

[Shishkabob]

I don't care about definitions. I care why he is up in arms about being considered part of public safety.

You can tell that he is offended by people thinking as such, because he is starting to resort to personal "attacks" just so he can prove a point.


AGain-- NO definitions--- Not saying we are, not saying we aren't. Why don't you want to be called part of public safety?

 

[paramedicmike]

But you *do* care about definitions otherwise you wouldn't keep asking over and over again what people have against public safety.

Rid is not resorting to personal attacks. He has said nothing about you personally. Please learn to separate criticism of the training one has received from an attack on an individual. In other words, Rid is saying, "The training you received sucked". He is NOT saying, "You suck". Please recognize the distinction between the two.

I doubt anyone here who has been arguing that we are medicine has any contempt at all towards public safety. Some of us have even worked in a public safety capacity. We just recognize the difference between the role of a public safety worker and that of an EMS provider. We also recognize that EMS is not public safety. We are health care. Rid and Vent have done a pretty thorough job explaining why that is, too.

 

[Shishkabob]

That's why I put "attacks" in quotation marks, as I couldn't come up with a better word. He is still using something against someone, true or not, to win a point.



And again, I don't care about definitions. I don't know how you got it that I do care about them because I'm arguing this, when I have said that I don't care about them.




So, again--

Why are you fighting against being called public safety? You still CAN practice medicine under the umbrella of "public safety", yet you can clearly tell a couple of you are angered for such a thought.

 

[VentMedic]

Why are you fighting against being called public safety? You still CAN practice medicine under the umbrella of "public safety", yet you can clearly tell a couple of you are angered for such a thought.

What additional mandatory additions do you want to be included for EMS? Some think they are under paid now for what they do and you want them to do more in between calls? How much more education that doesn't directly pertain to patient care do you want to include in the curriculum? EMS doesn't have enough education required just for patient care and now you want to include code enforcement education and making it a mandatory part of the job description.

 

[Shishkabob]

No vent, thats not what I'm stating at all.

What I've been talking about this whole thread is how I can see it viewed as both medicine AND PS. I've also been trying to figure out why some people get offended when someone thinks EMS is a part if public safety



Not a single time did I ever state EMS should get in the law making / enforcing areas.

 

[fortsmithman]

Before I joined my town's ambulance service I and most non EMS all thought and most still do that EMS is public safety. If you were to ask a non EMS person on the street chosen at random and without stating your view ask them what EMS is you would get a majority of this answer that EMS is public safety.

 

[VentMedic]

If you were to ask a non EMS person on the street chosen at random and without stating your view ask them what EMS is you would get a majority of this answer that EMS is public safety.

You might as well ask the lay person what drug you push in a cardiac arrest and have a better chance of getting the correct answer unless they are involved in benefits or personnel management.

Not being familiar with Canada's Public Safety Officer benefits, the would be hard probably for some involved in EMS to answer. The differences have been well pointed out for the U.S.

What I've been talking about this whole thread is how I can see it viewed as both medicine AND PS. I've also been trying to figure out why some people get offended when someone thinks EMS is a part if public safety

The definition of "Public Safety" is not about "opinion". In the U.S. it is defined which is why legislators have had to petition for passage of Bills to include EMS providers in LODD benefits.

If you want to be Public safety you will have to assume all the responsibilites tha go with "the title". Again, EMS gets hung up on titles and again with little understanding of their meaning.

 

[Shishkabob]

". Again, EMS gets hung up on titles "


Exactly. This whole topic really means very little, which is why I keep asking why people care, and people keep ignoring that questions and come right back with "we're medicine!"

 

[paramedicmike]

No. You keep asking what's wrong with being considered public safety not why everyone cares.

 

[VentMedic]

". Again, EMS gets hung up on titles "


Exactly. This whole topic really means very little, which is why I keep asking why people care, and people keep ignoring that questions and come right back with "we're medicine!"

Linuss, I don't know how else to explain this to you. I care which is why I have quoted legislative issues which those in EMS should be aware of. Most also don't know how their state's workman comp law pertain to them either and still some continue to care whacker bags hoping to do a terrific off duty save. They also confuse "duty to act" and usually look under the wrong statute or state regulation for the answers. If you truly misunderstand your job, you could leave your family hangin' without a pot to pee in if you perceive yourself to be something you are not or think you are protected by the law when you are not. It doesn't matter what "opinion" you have. It matters that you know where you stand in your job and in the regulations that protect you and your family if something happens.