Is EMS Medicine or Public Safety or both

Is EMS

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
I voted for both. However I have slightly changed my mind after reading several posts. Several people made some good points.

EMS is medicine and and an emergency service. It isn't necessarily a public safety.
 
Maybe EMS si different here in Canada since a majority of EMS is run either by municipal or provincial govt's, and health authorities. Also that here in Canada we have higher education requirements. With the education I believe we in Canada may require a bachelors degree for EMS before the USA. The main reason we were declared a public safety occupation is fpr the income tax reasons and retirement benefits to be on par with fire and police.
 
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We are medical. Nothing else.
 
I think thi topic will have EMS providers debating this like the armed vs unarmed EMS.
 
fortsmithman said:
I think thi topic will have EMS providers debating this like the armed vs unarmed EMS.
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I think EMS providers are better with arms. I use my arms all the time.
 
I think it differs between agencies. My agency provides extrication, fire rehab support, and limited SAR, as well as our ALS services. So that is why I voted both, then the ems agency next to us in our county provides just ALS, so they are just medicine.

There have been many good points on here, but I do believe it is agency dependent.
 
cbjfan said:
I think it differs between agencies. My agency provides extrication, fire rehab support, and limited SAR, as well as our ALS services. So that is why I voted both, then the ems agency next to us in our county provides just ALS, so they are just medicine.

There have been many good points on here, but I do believe it is agency dependent.
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I ask again, what safety training did you recieve? What service of safety do you do?

Does anyone so far acclaiming to provide safety, even know what that includes? How many are Green Cross Certified or involved with them? Do you provide seminars for seatbelt safety, anti-cell phone (while driving), proper lifting classes, safety on the workforce? Again.. public safety.

R/r911
 
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Yes, we do seat belt and child car seat inspections, several public health initiatives such as kids don't fly, a PSA program with resources for window guards to prevent kids from falling out, a summer time problem here, bike helmets for low income kids, violence prevention programs in the public schools, operate a multi-diciplanary operations center for public health emergencies, trained staff in mass vaccination, hazmat training for public safety and hospitals, etc...I think we qualify as both.
 
Are we really so superficial that we care how other people refer to us as? This is almost as bad as crying over being called an ambulance driver.

There are too many problems in EMS and health care in general, to have a coronary over if people believe it's pure medicine or public service/safety.

Personally I think of EMS as medical, but if someone thinks of it as public safety. Eh, let them. I'm more concerned about the fact some people think of it as a trade or a hobby rather than a profession.
 
Sasha said:
Are we really so superficial that we care how other people refer to us as? This is almost as bad as crying over being called an ambulance driver.

There are too many problems in EMS and health care in general, to have a coronary over if people believe it's pure medicine or public service/safety.

Personally I think of EMS as medical, but if someone thinks of it as public safety. Eh, let them. I'm more concerned about the fact some people think of it as a trade or a hobby rather than a profession.
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The problem it is really necessary for many legal and work purposes. It is not superficial by far; since Public Safety has certain regulations that contain both Federal and State as well exemptions and regulations for pay, benefits, grants, etc. So what may not mean much to you, means a lot for the profession. Federal laws, regulations are all based upon the roles & responsibilities placed upon the profession. If you still believe we are safety try to apply for the death benefits offered to those that just provide EMS. Again, you have to step outside the box, there is a lot more out there.

Again, such classes alike seat belt training, bike safety rodeos are nice but are NOT really considered safety programs rather more a PR and wellness promotions. Even hospitals have such, but would not be considered a safety industry. When was the last time your service consulted with a Safety Engineer to develop a loss of injury work program or fall risk program, intersection and safety lighting studies, a traffic flow, etc. Again, how much formal safety training and education did you receive? How familiar is your crews with the "Life/Safety Codes" and things involving safety?

One has to be very careful of attempting to use terms as generic . For example; I may own a dog, but I am not a trainer or breeder


R/r 911
 
Ridryder911 said:
The problem it is really necessary for many legal and work purposes. It is not superficial by far; since Public Safety has certain regulations that contain both Federal and State as well exemptions and regulations for pay, benefits, grants, etc. So what may not mean much to you, means a lot for the profession. Federal laws, regulations are all based upon the roles & responsibilities placed upon the profession. If you still believe we are safety try to apply for the death benefits offered to those that just provide EMS. Again, you have to step outside the box, there is a lot more out there.

Again, such classes alike seat belt training, bike safety rodeos are nice but are NOT really considered safety programs rather more a PR and wellness promotions. Even hospitals have such, but would not be considered a safety industry. When was the last time your service consulted with a Safety Engineer to develop a loss of injury work program or fall risk program, intersection and safety lighting studies, a traffic flow, etc. Again, how much formal safety training and education did you receive? How familiar is your crews with the "Life/Safety Codes" and things involving safety?

One has to be very careful of attempting to use terms as generic . For example; I may own a dog, but I am not a trainer or breeder


R/r 911
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So R/r according to your statements, does that mean law enforcement and f.d. are not public safety? Just from what I got out of your post made it seem like they aren't. Also in your last post you said seat belt classes are P.R. but in your post before that you asked if people provide seat belt classes, which was one of your examples of public safety.

To answer your previous question, we provide CPR training for any community member (or someone who works in our community) who is interested, we do have proper lifting technique classes as requested by employers in town, we provide basic first aid classes, in the high school we team up with the drivers ed class to teach about safety. We have done other things in the past, and we have other things planned.
 
EMS has a strong foundation in public safety... some just like to think their too good it sounds like.

If you don't like some of what comes along with EMS then you should probably stay off the street and in the hospital. I enjoy the public safety education part that comes along with EMS. What better profession or group to educate the public?
 
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Actually, EMS is not considered public safety by the definitions established by the U.S. DOJ. This was an issue when concering benefits to those at 9/11 and new legislation was drawn from that since EMS did not fit into the category of Public Safety.

Florida also had a case concerning "Duty to Act" and the definition of Public Safety was brought into play. Only some Public Safety Officers have a duty to act while off duty and that is usually within Law Enforcement and Corrections. The Fire Department is part of public safety but at the time of Shane Kelly's (Oviedo FF) off duty death assisting at an MVC, there was no duty to act while off duty law that pertained to him. Thus, his family was not entitled to any benefits.

A statute was eventually added to include those that work for the State, municipal or county agencies to be included in the Workman's Comp act while performing tasks that pertain to their paid job when off duty.

If you look up Public Safety degrees in almost any college, you will find Law and Fire under that section with EMT(P) under health sciences.

Florida had numerous Public Safety departments at one time where EMS was also a role. When they separated, EMS came under a different category as did their Duty to Act status by definition of the statute at that time. However, since Shane Kelly's death those that work in EMS for a government agency, even though not by the definition of Public Safety, they can be entitled to some benefits if injured or killed.

So yes, terminology is very important for many reasons and most still don't understand what Duty to Act means on duty and off duty for legal purposes.
 
since fire departments are trying to pick up the EMS role, does EMS become public safety than?
 
firecoins said:
since fire departments are trying to pick up the EMS role, does EMS become public safety than?
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Not if their primary role is that of EMS. Folks, don't confuse the issue of medicine and safety as the same or as one. It is two different and complete things. Ever met a safety engineer? How well do you know OSHA codes and or your state safety boards? NO? Then your not safety.

This is where Federal Wage & Labor Board even wants to know how much time is spent in extrication and rescue versus providing patient care for pay distribution. Fire Service can be included because their actions are considered preventitive.

Offering courses on prevention and basic safety is nice but should not be considered "safety" when observing what truly what the safety profession consists of.

It would be alike someone who takes a CPR class acclaiming they are now a health care professional and know medicine because they know how to do a medical procedure.

Our primary role as an EMS provider is Emergency Medical Services. No, don't see anywhere any safety discussed. Examine and review the curriculum, I dare anyone to see any formal safety training or education within it. It's just not there. For a reason.

The Emergency Nurses Association has a pool safety program and as well anti-drunk driving and safe driving course, are they safety too? No. It's just they offer courses containing some safety ideologies.

It's not that I am too proud, but at least I know what my profession is and what it is not. I even have a degree in Fire Science and Safety Engineering; I know what the difference is. Even with that, I will acclaim I know very little of Safety in comparison of those of professional safety. Again, those in safety primary focus are in prevention of occurrences. This would be the case of Fire Service with pre-planning, code enforcement, sprinkler systems, and weight distribution, etc. Public Safety, again what preventative measures is a daily part of our job? Police do crime statistics and highway monitoring to reduce MVC's, Fire does inspections, Safety Engineers monitor and attempt reduce workmens injuries and all develop methods to reduce problems with code enforcement to back them to ensure that those methods will be carried out.

R/r 911
 
This is really an argument of semantics more then ne thing else. Regardless of the classification by some technical definition, EMS provides a safety role to the public... some EMS agencies more then others and this is a VERY IMPORTANT role. I don't perceive having personnel certified to inspect child restraint seats, performing seatbelt awareness, DUI consequence awareness, talking to kids in schools about safety, or any other injury prevention program as a PR campaign. Sure, it opens up interaction with the community which is awesome.... but the aforementioned are not planned strictly as a PR puppet show.

Since when did injury prevention fall out of place as one of the primary mission element of EMS????? It's something we do not do enough of. It's easier to let injuries happen and then intervene instead of investing time and resources into preventing them.

Injury prevention programs = PUBLIC SAFETY.
 
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VentMedic said:
Actually, EMS is not considered public safety by the definitions established by the U.S. DOJ. QUOTE]

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/Medal-of-Valor-Recipients-Honored-by-Department-of-Justice/46$28646

2 of the recipients are paramedics....
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ResTech said:
This is really an argument of semantics more then ne thing else.
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No it is not according to our government in the United States. Did you research any of the information I presented in my last post or the information Rid has posted?

Have you even looked at the issues presented with 9/11? Do you know why Good Sam laws were revised? Did you look up Public Safety employees responsibilities and benefits? Do you understand the workmans comp's laws, survivor benefits and Fair labor laws as they pertain to you?
What laws of enforcement concerning Public Safety codes are you responsible for? Which public office has given you these powers that you say you have? Do you know where to find your duty to act laws under your public safety department, state or municipal, as they pertain specifically to you? Again, who is specifically enforcing these regulations for you to call yourself Public Safety?

boingo said:
http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/Medal-of-Valor-Recipients-Honored-by-Department-of-Justice/46$28646

2 of the recipients are paramedics....
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Thank you for that link.


A “public safety officer” is a person (living or deceased) who is serving or has served in a public agency, with or without compensation, as a firefighter; law enforcement officer, including a corrections, court, or civil defense officer; or emergency services officer, as determined by the U.S. Attorney General.
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Here is a list of the recipients for the past few years since this Medal of Valor was established.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/medalofvalor/mov_awardees.html

The Paramedics have been part of a Fire, Police or Public Safety Department.
 
It is really an argument of semantics... the question posed was "Is EMS medicine or public safety, or some of both"? In what context is the question being asked? In reality of what EMS does or how EMS is perceived by certain governing bodies? And to me, this question was being asked to assemble the opinions of forum users since its in the form of a poll.

I didn't say I nor EMS in general "have any special powers". All I said was as EMS providers, we have a history and obligation to provide a form of public safety which is the practice of injury prevention within our communities. Whatever the government wants to classify EMS as is all on them and Im not debating what they may classify us as.

Reality speaking and given the history of EMS, public safety falls within the realm of EMS. How can one disagree that injury prevention programs are not a role of EMS or a form of public safety? Again, what context are we talking here??????
 
ResTech said:
It is really an argument of semantics... the question posed was "Is EMS medicine or public safety, or some of both"? In what context is the question being asked? In reality of what EMS does or how EMS is perceived by certain governing bodies? And to me, this question was being asked to assemble the opinions of forum users since its in the form of a poll.

I didn't say I nor EMS in general "have any special powers". All I said was as EMS providers, we have a history and obligation to provide a form of public safety which is the practice of injury prevention within our communities. Whatever the government wants to classify EMS as is all on them and Im not debating what they may classify us as.

Reality speaking and given the history of EMS, public safety falls within the realm of EMS. How can one disagree that injury prevention programs are not a role of EMS or a form of public safety? Again, what context are we talking here??????
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Semantics? If you are injured or killed on the job, you and your family might think it is more than semantics. I am only talking about Public Safety as the legal definition established in the U.S. with the benefits and privileges associated with that title. I am not talking about "opinion".

Right now, the one issue that the Public Safety definition has been expanded is in terms of survivors benefits for on the job death and this has come about since 9/11.

For duty to act other than on the job which the "duty to act" per your license pertains, EMS, unless employed by a government agency may be excluded from Federal and state definitions of Public Safety Officer.

Our country's legal system is built on terminology and definitions.

Again, don't mix up opinion with facts. "I teach CPR" does not make one a Public Safety Officer.
 
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