How would you feel about this?

[bunkie]

This happened in class last night, it really annoyed me but I've since gotten over it and shrugged it off. However, it has now turned into a huge debate between some friends and family I have.

Our secondary instructor (yes the one I've asked about before)started writing names on the board and put above it that these 7 people or so had the highest grades in the class. Averaging 90 or above. Then she ranked each person, 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the class. After that she moved to another board and broke down those 7 people into 2 categories, first being who've scored over 90 on all their exams and the others who've scored at least over 80 on all their exams.
Then she launched into a lecture about how people need to study with those people on the board and the people on the board need to help the people who weren't on the board. And how even the people on the board were way behind compared to the scores of the last class that went through. It went on for about 20 minutes, after class was over about how we all in essence, suck at life.
I was on that board as #3. I felt extremely agitated that my grades/scoring was disclosed to the group. That's not really something I get into with my fellow students. The only girl that knows my grades is the one I study with, a friend of mine and #1 on that board. She was super unhappy about it as well. I'm over it by morning, but as I said, it's become a debate among some people I know. And now, since this morning while studying for my skills eval today, I've had several phone calls from people trying to schedule studying with me. I'm barely finding the time to study for myself.

So, how would you feel about this? Do you feel it was inappropriate? Or an effective tool?

 

[Shishkabob]

Been done in my medic class.


After a particularly low scoring exam, the top 8 people were written on the board, and we were given low people... ie me and another guy had the highest, so we got the lowest scorers in class. Then 2nd highest got the 2nd lowest, etc etc., and we were expected to teach and tutor them.


Happened again during clinicals-- those with the highest GPA were put on the board, and we got first dibs as to what our clinical schedule would be.




Doesn't affect me in the slightest. Granted, I'm one of the top and not at the bottom, but it can only serve to help the lower portion of class.

 

[Summit]

1. It sounds like your class is sucking due to subpar students or efforts or teaching or some combination.

2. It's not your job to help your fellow students unless you want to.

3. What your instructor did is almost certainly against your school's privacy policy. Bring it to your department head or academic affairs dean.

 

[Seaglass]

Over the line. Your instructor has no idea of your time commitments or level of comfort with others. Besides, it's never appropriate to give out someone else's contact information without asking them first. I can see how it could've seemed like a good idea, but your instructor seriously lacks common courtesy.

 

[firecoins]

My medic class had everyon'e score posted publically. I had no problem with it.

 

[nomofica]

Exactly what Summit said. Your teacher can't make you tutor another student; their success is determined by their efforts, not yours. Not only will they still continue to be incompetent, but they will be holding you back from your potential.

So I'd say follow Summit's advice. Couldn't get much more cut and dry than that.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

I think that fact that this instructor maybe rubs you the wrong way in general is clouding things for you. I see nothing wrong with posting the scores for all to know really where they lie and to kick a few people in the butt.

For instance, lets say that you are scoring 90% on average. Good. That is above passing and pretty good. Now lets say that everyone else is scoring below 85% in the class. Well, now you know where you rank and can have a little confidence in your knowledge in comparrison to others. However, if everyone else is scoring above 95% in the class, then your 90% looks like crap, and it may motivate you to try a little harder. A little competition is okay by me as long as the end result is producing knowledgeable, compatent EMTs.

Hence, I do not have issue with the posting of grades, something that many schools do, as long as the information you get motivates you to continue doing well or to try harder. At midterm in my EMT the instructor posted all our grades, but not our names; he just listed them out on the white board, showing how many in the class were in what precentage. A few of us were in the 95% and better, but most were in the 80-90, which is still good and passing. A few were below 80%, which meant time to sit down with the instructor (especially one notable FF who scored 17% - NO LIE).

As far a being forced to help out the "dum dums" in your class... no one can make you, and considering how relatively easy EMT is, I would say, "No. If they are not capable of passing on their own, then they should reconsider the class. I am not going to be there in 1 year to tutor them when they are on a call and can't remember the contrindications for nitro (or such) so why should I be there now to help them understand BASIC information?"

 

[Lifeguards For Life]

many of our grades and scores were made public

 

[berkeman]

Scores in my class were public. I had no problem with it, but part of that probably was because of my rank.

The harder issue, whether the instructor tells you to or not, is how much to help other students. For me, if the student seems to be sincere and trying hard, and is just confused over some things (or nervous in the physical assessment portions), I will generally offer to spend some time with them to help out.

If on the other hand, the student is not sincere, and is not studying like they should be, and generally appears to be someone I wouldn't working on me if I were injured, then no. If they ask me for help, I may answer one question here and there, but I won't help them pass a class that they really shouldn't pass. In my class, several of the people on the bottom of the list fell into this category.

 

[Dominion]

Grades were a competition in my class. I won. I was not bothered about it, the lowest grade of 5 graduating students was a 92.

 

[creative_soul]

In my EMT-B class, our scores are not made public but even though I am one of the top students in my class, I would not really want my grades being made public without my permission. I think it is unfair to volunteer you to tutor others but I may be biased since I know what it is like to barely have time to study myself. If you do want to help out the students who are not doing as well, maybe you could take a few minutes to give them somestudy tips.

 

[HCEMS]

I can't say as though I disagree with posting scores of the top ranking students in the class. In my opinion it is a way to congratulate those who have worked hard in order to achieve those goals and it gives the students that aren't doing as well motivation to try harder.

I do disagree with the fact that they are suggesting that you should have to tutor them. A lot of people who are in these classes both medic and B classes have other priorities like working or taking care of their family which doesn't allow for time to tutor someone. In classes like these to it is all about your own willingness to learn and grasp the information. If you don't have the motivation to do well and to learn as much as possible then it is probably not a class to take.

 

[itku2er]

Nope having my grades posted never bothered me. The thing that bothered me was that when the grades were posted outside the room with half our SS number to identify us.

 

[Aerin-Sol]

My class gave everyone a letter and posts grades with only that letter as identifying identification. I really like it -- let's us see the data but without compromising anyone's privacy.

I would be quite unhappy if I was volunteered or even slightly pressured to help someone else study.

 

[Aerin-Sol]

My class gave everyone a letter and posts grades with only that letter as identifying identification. I really like it -- let's us see the data but without compromising anyone's privacy.

I would be quite unhappy if I was volunteered or even slightly pressured to help someone else study. Imagine if this was a college class and the professor said the high scoring students had to help the low scoring ones.

 

[JPINFV]

There is something seriously wrong with the way the instructor went about this. I've never been in a course that overtly publicized grades. Plenty of my undergrad courses published scores by student ID, but there was never any way to connect names to IDs unless the student told another student what his/her ID was. Just about every class released exam data consisting of mean score and standard deviation so you could have an idea about where you stood. Several, but by no means a majority, also put together a histogram of the scores.

If they want you to tutor the other students, then they should be compensating you for your time. Furthermore, there's absolutely no reason to release individual grades to the class. Telling everyone privately their class rank or releasing general exam data (mean, SD) would serve the same purpose.

 

[JonTullos]

I'd tell the instructor that you do not want your personal information, including your grades, posted again and I'd also make sure to let them know that you're not paying tuition to do their job (ie: teach the students). If you can make it out of there and pass NR, I'd definitely go elsewhere for medic. That's beyond dumb.

 

[Achromatic]

Wow. Sounds like a horribly bad way to do it.

Our instructor had us divide into study groups which had "at least one of the higher performing students in each group", but didn't identify who.

Even when she was told that our class was competitive (in a friendly way - our class is for existing FD staff in our county only), she put up everyone's scores, identified only by last four of SSN, so you could see how you were doing, and in relation to everyone else, but couldn't identify who was who, readily.

The way it sounds like it happened for you, Bunkie, sucked.

 

[Shishkabob]

I don't see where she said she was "forced" to tutor... just where the instructor strongly recommended that the low students get with the higher students and how the higher students should help the lower students.


If you don't want to help anyone, don't help. They can't alter your grade for helping/not helping.

I don't outright offer help to people in my class (barring 1-2 friends) but they all have my phone number, so all they need to do is call, and as of this point there's only one person who I'd outright refuse to help.

 

[wyoskibum]

You can post the grades without identifying the student to give everyone an idea of where they stand. To give out names and any personal information invades privacy.

Students who are struggling should be counciled privately by the class coordinator and arrangements for additional help should be made then. If a student doesn't have either the intellegence or has made the necessary commitment, then they shouldn't pass the class anyway.