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jwilliams161

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im about to start my classes for emt-b and i cant decide if i should take a brake from school for a while to work as and emt-b and then go back and get my paramedic or if i should just start the classes for paramedic the next term...

(also kinda has to do with staying a full time student)

let me know what you think
 
From what you wrote your sort of putting the cart before the horse.:blink:

You haven't even started the class yet so who's to say you will like it? Quite a few people in my class dropped out at term due to the fact that this wasn't what they had thought it would be.

However, I would first concentrate on getting certified. After that, depending on the area in which you live, It could be really hard to find paying work as a basic. So you might have to volunteer and gain experience before you can land a paid gig.

After your EMT class is over and done with I would contact your instructor and ask them to give you a honest evaluation if they think your cut out for paramedic school.
 
From what you wrote your sort of putting the cart before the horse.
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+1 on that...

ask them to give you a honest evaluation if they think your cut out for paramedic school.
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...and on that. Not everyone deserves the privilege of a seat in paramedic school. We do a great disservice to ourselves, our profession and our patients by the current set of admissions policies under which we operate. Like it or not, we need to separate the wheat from the chaff and in our ranks, there is a lot of chaff.

That said, I am one who would advise at least a year (maybe more, depending on call volume and how fast you learn) before upgrading from BLS to ALS. I went straight from BLS to ALS with no break and can state that while I did well, I probably could have done even better from a practical standpoint with more experience. No one should be in a rush to get themselves in a situation where they are without backup, which is exacly what becoming a paramedic is in most situations. The longer you can stay working under someone else's tutelage, the better. Our egos may not like playing second fiddle to someone else, but the experience is without compare in terms of practical value once you are on your own.
 
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With the utmost respect, usafmedic, I'm not trying to be argumentive at all, just completely curious, what do you think you could have learned working as a basic before going to medic school that you wouldn't have been able to learn during your clinicals in medic school?

I'm trying to understand why many schools around here have a minimum number of hours that you must work or volunteer as a basic before you can even apply.

Again, I'm not trying to argue your point, I'm just asking for a little more elaboration.

-Adam
 
You should have a level of appropriate exposure and acumen with the primary care skills before progressing to intensive care level.

By that I mean you should have patient assessment, patho and phys, meds and the plethora of other things that are common to all patients under your belt. Your reference should be the sick and injured people you have dealt with and not what the textbook says because you have never seen a patient or saw two during the required ten hours of clinicals for your Basic class but other than you didn't turn a wheel.

I also mean (and not to sound harsh) but the small amount of education you are given in your Basic class is not really adequate to upgrade to ALS level with. You should have an indepth understanding of anatomy, physiology and meds.

For what my two cents are worth you should do college level A&P with lab, pharnacology and if you can, a general patho class, before you take your EMT or if in your case you can't do that, after EMT but before Paramedic while getting some patient care experience.
 
take the break if u need to make money to support urself.

if not.. just go all the way through.
 
I have to go along with medic and brown on this one. I have never understood how a person can after never having had any experience dealing with the sick and injured and after a few months in the mill come out and hit the streets as a professional rescuer. We don't even need to bring out the fact that you are being done a great disservice being allowed to go from lay to medic for so many reasons (a complete lack of prerequisite education for many programs comes to mind) but how does one know if they even have the slightest bit of ability to provide quality compassionate professional patient care.

There are so many things that most people who have never been in the emergency care field find objectionable,do I need to list a few? Being able to provide compassionate care to some people is hard even for the most experienced amongst us. I truly believe people that excel in health care like many other specialized fields have a natural ability to do so. Being able to enhance that ability takes time and practice. Can it be done,obviously it can I see mill medics from time to time as they rotate through the ER.

When I started 11 years ago I made the commitment to hit each step on the ladder and become comfortable with the added skills before I moved on. From first responder to basic to IV tech to ER tech. I hope to get my pre reqs for nursing school started in the future but to be honest I am quite happy as a tech.

I think the time between your basic and medic classes should be determined by the amount of patient care you are getting if any. A busier department or private (911 or IFT) will give you the confidence you need and help you to become a better provider plus you will have time to decide if medic is really what you want to do. If I had to toss out a number I would say a year in most cases,this seems to be a popular number and I think that those who feel the same on the subject would agree. Of course each and every person is different so you need to find what works best for you.
 
adamjh3 said:
With the utmost respect, usafmedic, I'm not trying to be argumentive at all, just completely curious, what do you think you could have learned working as a basic before going to medic school that you wouldn't have been able to learn during your clinicals in medic school?

I'm trying to understand why many schools around here have a minimum number of hours that you must work or volunteer as a basic before you can even apply.

Again, I'm not trying to argue your point, I'm just asking for a little more elaboration.

-Adam
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How to provide quality patient care outside of the safety and security of the clinical setting comes to mind. Also you may save yourself a small fortune should you decide being a medic is not quite what you thought it would be.
 
I think we should do away with emt altogether and just require everyone to get a proper education and come out able to actually do patient care. But as we do not live in a perfect world get emt presuming you even pass then immediately go to Paramedic. This helps you avoid developing bad habits and bad attitudes that will hinder your future education.
 
EMT -vs- Paramedic Training

I agree, EMT's are not properly trained. Many fellow EMT's that I speak to, all agree that they learned more on the job then in school. I believe we need to raise the bar for EMT training.
 
josh EMT said:
I agree, EMT's are not properly trained. Many fellow EMT's that I speak to, all agree that they learned more on the job then in school. I believe we need to raise the bar for EMT training.
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I am afraid that I will have to take you to task on that one. I don't think that EMT's aren't properly trained. I think they haven't had the exposure that we have had to develop the critical thinking skills and the experience to tell the subtle differences. That comes with field time both as an EMT and a Paramedic. As an EMS educator I can only give them the tools needed to help them help a patient but nothing can replace field experience. Not even the classroom no matter how much we as educators try. Not every patient reads the books we read.
 
medic417 said:
I think we should do away with emt altogether and just require everyone to get a proper education and come out able to actually do patient care. But as we do not live in a perfect world get emt presuming you even pass then immediately go to Paramedic. This helps you avoid developing bad habits and bad attitudes that will hinder your future education.
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Fully agree with this
 
what do you think you could have learned working as a basic before going to medic school that you wouldn't have been able to learn during your clinicals in medic school?
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Primarily? Clinical judgment that only comes with experience. Speaking as someone who has precepted a few hundred students across three different fields (EMS (civilian and military), RT and echocardiography) 99 times out of a hundred you can tell a medic student who has minimal street experience from one who has a year or two of BLS under his belt. They tend to just have a much easier time with things, especially when they are less educated outside of EMS.

Beyond that, LEvel1pedstech answered your question for me. Among EMTs and EMT students, experience is vastly underappreciated in the quest for a shiny patch.
 
medic417 said:
I think we should do away with emt altogether and just require everyone to get a proper education and come out able to actually do patient care.
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I might be inclined to agree with you medic, but I'm curious if you ever worked as an EMT prior to becoming a paramedic. Because if you had, well that would be kind of hypocritical no? Do as I say not as I did.

There's even an EMT agreeing with what you said, wonder if he is following the advice he's agreeing with and refraining from EMS employment until he has "a proper education", ie paramedic certification.

A lot of the paramedics on this forum seem to forget they were ever EMTs, or would like others to forget.

Having said that I agree that EMT training probably could use more A&P, which is why I'm taking an A&P course right now.
 
dudemanguy said:
I might be inclined to agree with you medic, but I'm curious if you ever worked as an EMT prior to becoming a paramedic. Because if you had, well that would be kind of hypocritical no? Do as I say not as I did.
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Yes I wasted many years being an emt. No not hypocritical it is the voice of experience. And now as an educator my experience is that those that waste a year or more being emt's tend to be the worst Paramedic students as they think they know it all.
 
And now as an educator my experience is that those that waste a year or more being emt's tend to be the worst Paramedic students as they think they know it all.
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I have had a few of those but I saw that much more in students coming straight from EMT-B to paramedic. Of course, these are generally the same people who will think they know it all right up until the day they either get bored with the field and leave or reality bites them squarely on the ***. The ones who had a decent amount of experience in a good system (key point here) tended to be much more level headed and professional than those coming straight out of an EMT-B program or those who had gained "experience" working for the less professional outfits out there.

I believe EMTs have their place, but not in the critical care setting outside of rural areas as volunteers. Honestly, they should really be relegated to transfer duty only in the commercial operations even moreso than they already are. That said, the curriculum is in serious, no, desperate need of a revamp on all fronts from first responder all the way through paramedic. I see no problem with the multi-step progression as it functions quite well in other high stress, high overturn professions such as in aviation where one learns to be a private pilot in much less complicated aircraft before being thrown to the wolves in a large, fast and fully equipped commercial aircraft. You fly for free (or pay to fly) to earn the privilege of qualifying as a commercial pilot.

If we simply eliminate the basic EMT programs altogether we have no way of weeding out the ignorant, demented and otherwise unfit and undesirable before they are occupying a seat in a paramedic class or before they hit the streets and realize that the reality of being a paramedic is not what they expected even after they have been through the ringer of the course. If we are to both increase the educational standards and go to a single provider system, we risk pushing the attrition rates through the roof (not a bad thing) but at the same time wasting a tremendous amount of time, money and resources on training people who will not, can not and (most importantly) should not be paramedics simply because we have no way of weeding them out beforehand. Just my two cents...
 
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jwilliams161 said:
im about to start my classes for emt-b and i cant decide if i should take a brake from school for a while to work as and emt-b and then go back and get my paramedic or if i should just start the classes for paramedic the next term...

(also kinda has to do with staying a full time student)

let me know what you think
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I, too, have yet to even start EMT school, but I have already decided to wait 2 years (at least) before thinking about Paramedic school.

It is important to me to get some real world experience and meaningful numbers and types of patient contacts before I kick it up a notch.
 
The correct answer is this: Do what you feel is right for you.


Some people may need a year as an EMT to feel comfortable moving on. Some might need the weekend between classes. No one can say for sure what is best for you.


I did 5 shifts as an EMT before I joined medic school. No real detriment.

Some in my class have been EMTs for years, and they did fine in class. And still others got their EMT, worked outside of EMS for years, than went to medic school and did fine.
 
usafmedic45 said:
If we simply eliminate the basic EMT programs altogether we have no way of weeding out the ignorant, demented and otherwise unfit and undesirable before they are occupying a seat in a paramedic class or before they hit the streets and realize that the reality of being a paramedic is not what they expected even after they have been through the ringer of the course. If we are to both increase the educational standards and go to a single provider system, we risk pushing the attrition rates through the roof (not a bad thing) but at the same time wasting a tremendous amount of time, money and resources on training people who will not, can not and (most importantly) should not be paramedics simply because we have no way of weeding them out beforehand. Just my two cents...
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I tend to agree, there is only so much a persons past history, references and an interview will tell you. However telling them that they have to go to school for 7 - 8 hrs a day, 5 days a week for several months before doing months of hospital and ambulance clinical time. A pass mark of 80% and paying $12000.00 or so up front will help weed out those who are not committed to the program. Even so there is always a few who get through who probably shouldn't.
 
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