HELP! Need advice!

M1Rifle3006

Forum Probie
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I tried to join the Army as a 68W combat medic, but because of my asthma and the medicine I have to take for it the recruiter said I am unable to join.

That said, I really, really want to learn combat medicine, even if I'm not in the Army. Is there a way I can do this? I know it seems odd, since I will never be able to use those skills, but I still want to learn how to do everything that a combat medic would. I talked to a combat medic and he said that what they do is far different from a paramedic and they have to learn stuff that even a seasoned EMT-P wouldn't know. Is this true?

Any ideas?
 
From what combat medics on this site have said they are only trained to the Basic level and not paramedics (unless they are special forces I believe).
 
Would an EMT-P be able to do everything an Army combat medic would be able to do?
 
I went to medic school with a guy who was a combat medic in the army.

Their training will get them an EMT-B level certification in the civilian world. They do learn to start IVs and IOs. I wouldn't say that they learn anything a paramedic wouldn't learn in terms on medicine. Their treatments may be slightly different than a civilian medic due to the circumstances, but if you want to be a medic just go to school for it. I am not sure what they learn combat wise, but as far as medical knowledge you will learn a lot more in a civilian course.
 
I went to medic school with a guy who was a combat medic in the army.

Their training will get them an EMT-B level certification in the civilian world. They do learn to start IVs and IOs. I wouldn't say that they learn anything a paramedic wouldn't learn in terms on medicine. Their treatments may be slightly different than a civilian medic due to the circumstances, but if you want to be a medic just go to school for it. I am not sure what they learn combat wise, but as far as medical knowledge you will learn a lot more in a civilian course.


So sounds like the medic that told me that combat medics learn stuff that are out of the league of EMT-P's was pulling my leg?
 
So this doesn't help answer your question, but i am in the same boat. I wanted to Join the Army for Combat medic, but i had pins put in my hip back in the day, so the MEPS Dr's wouldn;t let me join...
 
So this doesn't help answer your question, but i am in the same boat. I wanted to Join the Army for Combat medic, but i had pins put in my hip back in the day, so the MEPS Dr's wouldn;t let me join...

I feel your pain... So you went into paramedic training?
 
So sounds like the medic that told me that combat medics learn stuff that are out of the league of EMT-P's was pulling my leg?

Yep pretty much.

As far as special skills beyond civilian paramedics a special forces medic might have more toys. A standard combat medic, no.

No offense to the combat medics on here but in a medical emergency I'd rather have a civilian paramedic with experience than a combat medic with experience.

Gsw I'll take the combat medic, although any civilian medic has the exact same capabilities besides access to Hextend...
 
I work with a guy who was a medic in Iraq. He's a decent street medic, and pretty unflappable when s*it goes sideways, but it sounds as though the training he received in the service left a lot to be desired when it came to treating medical complaints as opposed to simple trauma.

If you're interested in the whole "combat" aspect though, I know that many ambulance companies work out deals with local law enforcement to provide SWAT medics. Another medic I work with went this route and seems to love it. Lot of physical and weapons training in addition to your medic license, but maybe something to look into.
 
One of our EMT-Bs enlisted in the army last year, he is now a medic and he stated that they only gave him some slight additional training like starting a line etc. So based on what he told us, it does sound like combat medics don't receive the same level of training as a civilian paramedic.
 
Let's just set this straight...

68W does not receive the same training as a Paramedic (different toy box)
Paramedic does not receive the same training as a Special Operations Medic (18D not W1 ASI) with different toys
Tactical Medic is a red headed step child of EMS and LEO
Entirely different worlds, not the same

Questions?
 
68W does not receive the same training as a Paramedic (different toy box)
Paramedic does not receive the same training as a Special Operations Medic (18D not W1 ASI) with different toys
Tactical Medic is a red headed step child of EMS and LEO
Entirely different worlds, not the same


So in a hypothetical situation, if an EMT-P was suddenly placed in a 68W's shoes, would he/she be unable to do much?
 
So in a hypothetical situation, if an EMT-P was suddenly placed in a 68W's shoes, would he/she be unable to do much?

Trauma is trauma for the most part. The major difference in military medic training (at least when I was on active duty) is that a combat medic trains to treat combat wounds in a mostly young healthy population. The medical things (meaning medical conditions versus trauma) I learned were mostly after I was assigned to a unit.

A civilian paramedic also has training in trauma management and with the exception of some toys that the militry uses that most civilian systems do not, the goals remain the same. Stop bleeding, secure airway, get them to the OR.

So the short answer is a paramedic could treat the trauma if placed in a 68W's combat boots.
 
Trauma is trauma for the most part. The major difference in military medic training (at least when I was on active duty) is that a combat medic trains to treat combat wounds in a mostly young healthy population. The medical things (meaning medical conditions versus trauma) I learned were mostly after I was assigned to a unit.

A civilian paramedic also has training in trauma management and with the exception of some toys that the militry uses that most civilian systems do not, the goals remain the same. Stop bleeding, secure airway, get them to the OR.

So the short answer is a paramedic could treat the trauma if placed in a 68W's combat boots.


Thank you. One more question: Would an EMT-B have about the same ability to treat wounds (combat related or otherwise) as a 68W? Or is a 68W on par with an EMT-P?
 
Thank you. One more question: Would an EMT-B have about the same ability to treat wounds (combat related or otherwise) as a 68W? Or is a 68W on par with an EMT-P?

First Aid is first aid, is first aid, but 68Ws are trained in skills that the civillian world would see as ALS, like starting lines, chest tubes, etc.
 
Two different skill sets

So in a hypothetical situation, if an EMT-P was suddenly placed in a 68W's shoes, would he/she be unable to do much?

Depends on the unit that the 68W is assigned to, I would love to see a civi EMT-P with an aid bag on a 20k foot march with the infantry... With a hospital unit, maybe, but that involves a different mindset, think more along the lines of "we're not taking to the hospital, we are the hospital." Sustainment, some basic preventative medicine, prophylactic antibiotics, health surveys, counseling, routine immunizations, etc... Not the same tool box. In basic trauma, yes, their skill sets are similar, sort of, but definitive airway being slightly different from ETT, I guess that they both use an ETT though, one cuts... The 68W is trained to a general set of guidelines, then used by the unit for what they specifically need. So, in brief, no, an EMT-P would not be able to do much, as a 68W is a soldier, a generally trained medic, and a unit specifically trained resource.
 
A lot of people here are trying to process the relationship between civilian EMS and combat medicine in terms of certification level, which I suppose is something we've been primed to think in terms of since our certification level is one of our major personal choices as EMS practitioners. However that isn't a very good way to break down the differences between combat medics and civilian EMTs because each practices emergency care differently from the other.

I've received combat medicine briefings, not certifying training but rather knowledge provided to me as an Air Force ROTC cadet in the spirit of AFROTC's new emphasis on an expeditionary warrior ethos, albeit the briefings were conducted by combat medics. I also have civilian FR and EMT-B certifications, and in my observation it's different equipment, different protocols, and different decision-making by the practitioner. Combat medicine, at least in my exposure to it, is all trauma care.

Equipment:
  • Pre-assmbled tourniquets designed to be applied by the victim using a single arm and sometimes built into a soldier's uniform
  • Quick-clot powder
  • Israeli trauma bandages which are gauze padding, a roller-bandage type cloth, and a plastic clip all already assembled together
Those seem to be three staples of combat medicine not found in civilian EMS, at least not as standard equipment. Military equipment seems to be designed to be rapidly applied, in a way that a victim with use of a single arm can apply the equipment to themselves, and in a way that medics provide their essential patient care while spending as little time on the patient as possible.

Protocols:
As a FR, I was told bad FRs used tourniquets and good FRs didn't. The EMT program was a little more relaxed about their use, but nothing like the way the military uses them. Tourniquets are basically life to combat soldiers, and the military uses them routinely and has been developing their ability to get victims into hospitals soon to be able to revive the limb distal to the tourniquet. Traumatic amputations are common among soldiers.

Decision-making:
My EMT training certainly taught me to say "scene safety", but little more was really said about it. For combat medics, this is a really big deal because victims are victims often because they got shot, and if they got shot where they are, you probably will too. It's a trade-off between safety and patient care, and it's something combat medics have to think a lot about whereas it seems to be an understandably foreign concept to a lot of civilian EMS. A wrong decision can turn one casualty into two or more, and many times the medic gets more injured than the initial victim. Even as a simple checklist technicians, combat medics and EMTs have different mnemonics that perform different tasks. I don't understand there to be a SAMPLE or OPQRST for combat medics, and instead soldiers learn things like how to make a 9-line MEDIVAC request.

Hopefully this is a good reflection of the kind of differences between combat medicine and civilian EMS, which some users have summarized much more briefly already. Civilian EMS focuses much more on medical emergencies such as myocardial infarctions, and in a normal civilian job medical calls will some, if not most of the emergencies you respond to. What's been said earlier about more advanced trauma care such as lines and tubes being EMT-P skills is definitely true, but I hope you understand that there are trauma care skills at all EMT levels.

If it's the idea of performing very advanced care that appeals to you, EMT-Ps certainly do perform advanced care. You might also consider becoming a nurse or doctor, since those individuals carry out far more types of care than EMTs are permitted to.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A normal 68W is nearly helpless in the real world. They are barely acceptable as first responders or EMT-B for trauma, very poor at medical. They generally don't know pathophysiology, meds, math, or anything beyond HABC. An EMT-P can do anything. a 68W can do if they're fit. A 68W cannot.

R. Martin, 68W / Paramedic
 
Depends on the unit that the 68W is assigned to, I would love to see a civi EMT-P with an aid bag on a 20k foot march with the infantry... With a hospital unit, maybe, but that involves a different mindset, think more along the lines of "we're not taking to the hospital, we are the hospital." Sustainment, some basic preventative medicine, prophylactic antibiotics, health surveys, counseling, routine immunizations, etc... Not the same tool box. In basic trauma, yes, their skill sets are similar, sort of, but definitive airway being slightly different from ETT, I guess that they both use an ETT though, one cuts... The 68W is trained to a general set of guidelines, then used by the unit for what they specifically need. So, in brief, no, an EMT-P would not be able to do much, as a 68W is a soldier, a generally trained medic, and a unit specifically trained resource.

Wrong, actually. Most civilian EMTs could perform a 68Ws job, with weapons training, just as well as 68Ws.
 
OP, you can read the manuals, but better if you want to know skills is go get the EMT-B. Don't be a "camel in the forest", and don't be a hobbyist when it does come to medical training...in or out.
 
Back
Top