have i gone crazy?

[iamjeff171]

and forgot how to do cpr? when i last took my cpr class compression:ventilation was 30:2 on everyone but 2 rescuer infant. however i am doin an online review for my NR test tomorrow and it had this question:

"You arrive on scene with your partner to find an 11 year old boy unconscious after being dragged from the water. He is not breathing and has no pulse. CPR in this case should include________________.

Your Answer: 30:2 compression to ventilation ratio
Incorrect

Correct Answer is: 15:2 compression to ventilation ratio

New AHA guidelines specify that for two person CPR on a child you should use a 15:2 ratio. It would be 30:2 if you were alone and did not have your partner Joe.
"

has aha changed their teaching, or is this incorrect/old information in the review?

-Jeff

 

[Dominion]

I'm not sure about that. We just took PALS and I was told the same thing you said above. 30:2 on everyone but infant.

 

[spisco85]

That's different

 

[Brandon O]

I believe I've run into this, but I always interpreted it to be a misunderstanding by whoever was promulgating it, and that's always what it ended up being.

Wasn't this in the old guidelines? Or am I misremembering?

 

[Brandon O]

Actually I just found some of my notes from the AHA and they have two-rescuer for children as 15:2 as well. I think it's just inconsistent...

 

[TransportJockey]

For PALS and PEPP in my medic program they stressed 15:2 for 2 rescuer infant/child.

 

[Dominion]

I wish I still had my pals books (they were loaners ....sad). The chart had compression ratios and it had 15:2 for infant and 30:2 for everything else. Maybe I'm going crazy and need to look at it again.

 

[TransportJockey]

Here's the other crazy question... You have an unconcious kid (9yo) with a PR of 52... Do you do CPR?

 

[zappa26]

I'm an ARC FA/CPR instructor, and although I'm only trained to instruct lay responders, I hold a professional rescuer cert too and have since I started lifeguarding in 2007.

CPR for Lay Responders is 30:2, for everyone, all the time. They're not trained in two-person response.

CPR for Professional Rescuers is always 30:2 when you're alone. It's also 30:2 if you have two rescuers working on an adult, but when you have two rescuers on someone who does not show signs of puberty (that is, infant and child), it's 15:2.

 

[MRE]

I do the same thing as Zappa26, but at both lay responder and pro rescuer levels. The pro rescuer guidelines are 30:2 for everything except two rescuer CPR on an infant.

I think there was a mistake with the question. Either the wrong answer was set to be the correct one or the question is from a few years back when 15:2 would have been the correct answer.

You were right, 30:2 is correct. I wouldn't worry about it any more.

 

[Hoofguy]

Here's the other crazy question... You have an unconcious kid (9yo) with a PR of 52... Do you do CPR?

Umm no, you don't

 

[Ella~Emt15136]

In our class it is 15:2 for infant or child.
start CPR on an infant if pulse is less than 60....for a 9 year old with a pulse of 52 no.

 

[TransportJockey]

I do the same thing as Zappa26, but at both lay responder and pro rescuer levels. The pro rescuer guidelines are 30:2 for everything except two rescuer CPR on an infant.

I think there was a mistake with the question. Either the wrong answer was set to be the correct one or the question is from a few years back when 15:2 would have been the correct answer.

You were right, 30:2 is correct. I wouldn't worry about it any more.

I'm reading the AHA Currents right after the new guidelines came into effect... On pg 14 it says infants and children (until onset of puberty) 2-rescuer professional CPR is 15:2.

In our class it is 15:2 for infant or child.
start CPR on an infant if pulse is less than 60....for a 9 year old with a pulse of 52 no.

I should have worded that better... If the 9yo is unconcious and shows signs of poor perfusion (actually just the poor perfusion), and the kid has not hit puberty, if hte pulse is under 60, guidelines state start CPR.
-Same AHA Currents (Winter 05, pg 11)

 

[MRE]

I'm reading the AHA Currents right after the new guidelines came into effect... On pg 14 it says infants and children (until onset of puberty) 2-rescuer professional CPR is 15:2.

The AHA Currents are newsletters, not training or standard documents. I think most of us know how accurate newspapers/letters tend to be. I wouldn't rely on this for your standards.

My EMT-B book dated 2007 which states 30:2 for everything except 2 rescuer infant. All my Red Cross materials say the same, and my last AHA re-cert for CPR said it too. I think I can safely say that this is the correct info.

 

[TransportJockey]

RE: ratio, Pg 162 of PALS states:
"A universal compression-to-ventilation ratio of 30:2 for lone rescuers is recommended for all victims of cardiac arrest, from infants to adults. The ratio is modified to 15:2 for infants and children if 2 rescuers are present."

RE: CPR w/ pulse, Pg 122-124 of PALS shows that symptomatic bradycardia in an infant or child w/ a pulse rate less than 60 should be treated first line with chest compressions. Pharmacological methods are only used if the symptomatic bradycardia persists while compressions are being performed.

And per AHA definition, a child is older than 1 year but before puberty starts


My PALS books (pg numbers out of Providers manual) are the newest editions with the 2005 guidelines in them.

 

[Brandon O]

All of the AHA material I have here says 15:2 for children. However my EMT textbook says 30:2. This is a bit of a mystery.

 

[TransportJockey]

All of the AHA material I have here says 15:2 for children. However my EMT textbook says 30:2. This is a bit of a mystery.

Who are you certified for CPR with? AHA or your EMT textbook?

 

[Brandon O]

Well, if we're being smartass, both, in a manner of speaking.

But while the AHA is the source of the recommendations, the EMT curricula are supposedly drawing from it, so it's odd that we'd see different recommendations there. But it does look like most of the discrepancies reported are between AHA/ARC and EMS training material.

 

[Dominion]

Who are you certified for CPR with? AHA or your EMT textbook?

What jpaintball quoted is what I was told in PALS (I wish I still had the books)

30:2 except in infant and with 2 rescue CPR in infant and children before puberty. However in the same class I was told that I should remember 30:2 for EVERYTHING except infants only.

As for bradycardia <60 with poor perfusion start compressions, if compressions are ineffective after (I forget help me out here jt)...you can start with pharmacological interventions.

This is what was put forth to us in PALS.

 

[TransportJockey]

What jpaintball quoted is what I was told in PALS (I wish I still had the books)

30:2 except in infant and with 2 rescue CPR in infant and children before puberty. However in the same class I was told that I should remember 30:2 for EVERYTHING except infants only.

As for bradycardia <60 with poor perfusion start compressions, if compressions are ineffective after (I forget help me out here jt)...you can start with pharmacological interventions.

This is what was put forth to us in PALS.

I'm at sitting at a coffee shop helping some friends study other subjects, so I don't have my PALS books handy... I think it's after a full 5 cycles (two minutes. Thenyou can try pharm, or in the absolute last resort, pacing.