hatred for women

[NREMT08]

I used to work for a rural fire department, I worked there for about 4 months, I was an EMT for them, I am not yet fire certified, I was on friendly terms with everyone there, I got along with everyone, with the exception of one man who seemed to really dislike me, it was the first day that I had met him, he lashed out at me verbally in a very unprofessional and totally unacceptable way, it was a completely unjustified attack, and I was told that it would be taken care of, and that he would not be treating me that way again, everything seemed fine, I had explained what happened to a female friend of mine from another neighboring department, she said don't worry about it, I later told my higher up about the "incident". at his request, I wrote an account of the "incident". After reading it, he said that all looked in order, and not to worry about it, that I was not going to be in any trouble and that if anything happened at all, it would be some kind of slap on the hand so to speak, because I had spoken up for myself as the man was verbally attacking me, I was told I shouldn't have said anything to him, that I should have not tried to stand up for myself and that instead, I should have just went and told the Captain, so I was told I might get a small write up as a formality, but nothing that would in any way stay in my file, I was told that there were alot of things that should have happened, like the LT. at the time putting a stop to it, which he failed to do as he sat right there and watched, I was told if there was any "paperwork" at all, that it was just a formality and not to worry.........then......I went to work one day and I was called into the office by the Captain, who handed me my letter of resignation, and long story short, he told me i needed to sign it or they would have to fire me and that would ruin my career in the fire service, I was in tears, shocked, horrified, confused, I felt betrayed, I felt so many things I just cant write them all, I couldn't
stop crying, I didn't know what to do, he kept telling me that I could sign the letter and resign, and that way when I got a job at another department there wouldn't be anything in my "file" and that it would look good for me, but that if I didn't sign the letter I would be fired and then everyone would know and it would be a mark on my name forever, I was so hurt and overwhelmed and scared and confused, I didn't know what to do so I signed the letter, and I left. after I spoke to some friends in the fire service about it, they said I did not have to sign that letter and that they bullied me into it, and that It sounded like "the boys club" crap, and that I shouldn't have signed it, but I didn't know any better, I am fairly young and this was my first job as an EMT and my first job with the fire department, I know there is alot of experience on this board, alot of people with time in the fire service, can you please give me your advice and thoughts on this? if there is anything I need to clear up and explain better please let me know, I am trying to be vague about names and rank, but if there is anything I can explain better let me know. thanks.

 

[skyemt]

Thoughts? ...

well, NO ONE deserves the kind of treatment that you received... totally unacceptable on every level... and you were totally justified in confronting it...

shame on your service, there is just no place for that, and their actions are insulting to all in EMS.

can't really tell you what to do, as i'm sure you know, it is a personal decision...

however, regarding your future, i will tell you not to give up and don't be discouraged... my agency has a female chief, who is an outstanding ALS provider and an even better Chief. We have numerous female EMT's and members, and i can assure you they are treated as equals and highly respected.

so my point to you is, do not think this is a representation of EMS everywhere... it most certainly is not...

keep your chin up, and DON'T GIVE UP THE DREAM!!

hope it was helpful.

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

Thoughts??? There's not enough information to say precisely one way or another. HOWEVER, from the way your predicament sounds, it might behouve (?sp) you to seek legal council. Because the way your story reads, it sounds like there were so many regulations, statutes, and federal laws violated that you could quite conceivably retire in just a few short years.

The way you were treated is INEXCUSABLE! End of story.

 

[daedalus]

I used to work for a rural fire department, I worked there for about 4 months, I was an EMT for them, I am not yet fire certified, I was on friendly terms with everyone there, I got along with everyone, with the exception of one man who seemed to really dislike me, it was the first day that I had met him, he lashed out at me verbally in a very unprofessional and totally unacceptable way, it was a completely unjustified attack, and I was told that it would be taken care of, and that he would not be treating me that way again, everything seemed fine, I had explained what happened to a female friend of mine from another neighboring department, she said don't worry about it, I later told my higher up about the "incident". at his request, I wrote an account of the "incident". After reading it, he said that all looked in order, and not to worry about it, that I was not going to be in any trouble and that if anything happened at all, it would be some kind of slap on the hand so to speak, because I had spoken up for myself as the man was verbally attacking me, I was told I shouldn't have said anything to him, that I should have not tried to stand up for myself and that instead, I should have just went and told the Captain, so I was told I might get a small write up as a formality, but nothing that would in any way stay in my file, I was told that there were alot of things that should have happened, like the LT. at the time putting a stop to it, which he failed to do as he sat right there and watched, I was told if there was any "paperwork" at all, that it was just a formality and not to worry.........then......I went to work one day and I was called into the office by the Captain, who handed me my letter of resignation, and long story short, he told me i needed to sign it or they would have to fire me and that would ruin my career in the fire service, I was in tears, shocked, horrified, confused, I felt betrayed, I felt so many things I just cant write them all, I couldn't
stop crying, I didn't know what to do, he kept telling me that I could sign the letter and resign, and that way when I got a job at another department there wouldn't be anything in my "file" and that it would look good for me, but that if I didn't sign the letter I would be fired and then everyone would know and it would be a mark on my name forever, I was so hurt and overwhelmed and scared and confused, I didn't know what to do so I signed the letter, and I left. after I spoke to some friends in the fire service about it, they said I did not have to sign that letter and that they bullied me into it, and that It sounded like "the boys club" crap, and that I shouldn't have signed it, but I didn't know any better, I am fairly young and this was my first job as an EMT and my first job with the fire department, I know there is alot of experience on this board, alot of people with time in the fire service, can you please give me your advice and thoughts on this? if there is anything I need to clear up and explain better please let me know, I am trying to be vague about names and rank, but if there is anything I can explain better let me know. thanks.

If that is a paid department, meaning you were hired, you need to speak to a lawyer familiar with cases such as these. This is unacceptable and cannot be tolerated.

 

[Ridryder911]

Sorry, too vague. We are only hearing partial of one sided story to make any determination of anything. What may be considered verbal abuse, maybe another one's "discussion". As well, most departments require a formality of "firing" someone, than just being able to immediately doing so. On what grounds of discharge to occur, and did they try to remedy the situation. Yes, there are services that have probationary periods, so they can remove those without having to have just cause.

I have never seen any department "write" a resignation letter for anyone. If this is the true scenario, then I would start making notes, and recalling any statements with dates and times, etc. Contact fair and equal employment division and do not discuss or sign anything with anyone specifics without talking to them first. A formal complaint is in order and should be sought for such cases as soon as possible, before they can bring up false claims.

Yes, "blackballing" occurs very prominently in emergency services, but usually there is a good reputation of why such occurs.

Good luck in predicatement.

R/r 911

 

[VentMedic]

One tiny penis should not stop you from getting the career you want!

Since you have already signed your resignation, you may still be able to seek legal counsel.

Or, you can learn from this and build a more solid foundation to gain your confidence to where words will not affect you quite as severely.

You will find someone like this person in almost every workplace regardless of whether you are male or female. Ignore them or just smile and treat them with "genuine" kindness until they retreat.

The other thing you should always do when you hire for a new job is read your company's P&P book especially the parts about filing complaints, reprimands and chain of command.

You were being tested to see what you could handle in the face of stress. Granted, it seems very rude and harassing, but if you crack on comments, what happens if someone speaks "rudely" during a stressing fire scene? Do I always agree with this form of testing? No, but then, we don't truly know all the details of your situation either.

When I first joined the "good ol' boys club almost 30 years ago as one of the very few women in EMS, I was fairly well prepared with a 2 year degree as a Paramedic and a FF certificate. I went in with arrogance knowing that I had a good foundation to write my ticket at that time with being a woman to my advantage. There were also not a lot of "harassment" laws back then. Actually, I also found other females in the profession were at times much more evil than the men when it came to "testing" new female recruits in EMS and/or FDs.

 

[MAC4NH]

I don't know the state in which you work, but if it's a paid, government based (municipal, county) department, you should have had formal training regarding harassment policy, grievance procedures, etc, upon being hired. Government entities all have rules and regs regarding such things and they generally enforce them. Some private entities such as hospital based EMS systems (at least in my area) are relentless in enforcing harassment rules.

Based on the limited information provided, you should seek an attorney who specializes in labor law to see if any of your rights were violated and if you have any recourse.

BTW, did you discuss this with your agency's Human Resources Dept? Your superiors may have violated internal rules and having you sign a resignation may have kept that knowledge from the HR Dept.

 

[Ridryder911]

One tiny penis should not stop you from getting the career you want!.

I agree with you Vent but, it goes both ways.. Men in nursing, find as much discrimination of attempting to be in the "sisterhood". I even watched a DVD in my grad study that was produced last year, and they were interviewing administrators and one mentioned how "men" were invading the profession, and that "they" did not really have the "calling" to be in it (the profession) as much as women, how this was changing the profession (in a bad way).

When I called this out, ironically no one noticed except me. The professor and remainder of class as well, must have either agreed or missed it. When I pointed out that if the statement had been made about women, there would had been an outcry or probably never would had been viewed because of such statements. The professor did apologise to me, but then immediately pointed out the "video" also had good points in it.. in other words, they will continue showing it.

Double standards.

R/r 911

 

[NREMT08]

I appreciate the support and the suggestions guys, thank you for your replies, I am not sure what I want to do about this yet, I can't say I want my job back, because even if I was able to get it back, I don't think my time spent there would be productive, I don't think they would appreciate that I am back with their department and I don't think that they would support a healthy workplace environment, I think that if I got my job back, they would make my life miserable, however, I do think that it would be worth it to bring this matter to the attention of a few people higher up the chain of command. possibly to prevent this from happening to someone else in the future, that is the least that I can do.

 

[BossyCow]

I appreciate the support and the suggestions guys, thank you for your replies, I am not sure what I want to do about this yet, I can't say I want my job back, because even if I was able to get it back, I don't think my time spent there would be productive, I don't think they would appreciate that I am back with their department and I don't think that they would support a healthy workplace environment, I think that if I got my job back, they would make my life miserable, however, I do think that it would be worth it to bring this matter to the attention of a few people higher up the chain of command. possibly to prevent this from happening to someone else in the future, that is the least that I can do.

An attorney can help you put a price tag on what you have lost in regards to pay and future hireability. One of the key points to a case in gender bias, is what happened when you reported the incident to your supervisors. There is a very detailed procedure that must be followed to insure that the investigation of the complaint is fair to all sides. This protects both the accuser and the accused.

I faced a similar situation at a hospital where I used to work. An older gentleman who was very fond of 'going off' on female co-workers who in some way displeased him. He would scream, yell, use obscenities, and according to legend, was proud of the number of women he had made cry. Apparently driving a woman to tears was proof the she didn't 'have what it takes' to be working outside of the home.

I filed a complaint with our human resource department and went through the 6 month painful process of 'investigation'. It ended up with me getting a written apology from him and him getting a letter in his file regarding what was and was not an appropriate way to handle conflict with co-workers. When I orginally filed the complaint, the response I got from other department managers was.. "oh yeah.. that's John alright! He does that" There is a sort of tolerance of bad behavior from a company's resident 'bad boy' Who sometimes is a woman.

 

[firecoins]

NREMT08

1. It sounds like you were discriminated against. It is illegal to force you to sign anything. Seek an attorney.

2. Use paragraphs. The first post is way too long.

 

[Old Road Dog and Sidekick]

tough situation

i am so sorry this has happened to you. it never should have, but we can both say this is common in some areas. it is all too prevalent. it is disgusting lack of professional behavior, and if you check your depts policy i would bet "hazing" is now outlawed, or at least carries heavy conscequences.
this is a tough haul because something bad happened, and they bullied you. now you can go to a labor lawyer, file a complaint, go to EOE, etc. in fact in some states you must go to them first before atty.
there are countless men and women who have been dealt with badly and tried to rectify the situation. there are some that have been successful, most have not.
if you are talking about a rural dept, you can perhaps get your job back, or an apology. just guessing here, but the laws of public accountability go against such.
two scenarios you could end up: lawsuit (if you have money as no public interest group or lawyer will take this on for free unless it there is a death or extreme injury).. drags on couple years, turns your life inside out, you will be grilled by defense atty's who will hunt through every single bit of trash they can find on you, from birth on.
this is called the "nuts or sluts" defense. they will try to say you are one those or both. they will attempt to drive you all but crazy, it will be in the paper, you will have a hard time getting a job at a burger king, and will probably end up moving.
second: or..you can move anyway. find a different area where things are better. i am of the mindset that the local FD mirrors the climate of the community. biased i know.
as one atty put it in an article years ago.."you will get your job back, but you will never have your job back".

i am seeing some of this also on the small voly dept we are on. the men are actually decent, but the women are as hostile and angry as bowl of habanerros. can't say why? have theories. really stupid i think as the most important person is the patient.

good website for suppot: "women in the fire service." unfortunetly you will find other stories like yours, and worse.
i agree with the male nurse getting bad treatment. i've seen it. i have to say the male nurses i worked were the very best. loving and gentle, funny, smooth sailing, no complaints there.
my grandma always said : it don't matter who does the job, long as it gets done.

 

[Jon]

Well... you really need to seek legal advice. There isn't anything that we can do to really help you.



What Rid... you don't like being a Murse?

 

[NREMT08]

Quote Jon:" Well... you really need to seek legal advice. There isn't anything that we can do to really help you." end quote.



But there is, what everyone wrote has helped, your input, your suggestions, and the ability to write this painful situation down, and to get support from people who have had years and years of experience, thank you, whether it seems insignificant to others reading the responses, I can assure you, reading what you guys have written in reply has really helped me get through this, if that sounds cheesy or silly, I apologize, but it is the truth.

 

[Old Road Dog and Sidekick]

first: do no harm

"well..you need to seek medical advice. there isn't anything we can really do to help you"

share your experience, strength, and hope. thats often all that can be done. have known a few close friends who went through this. a comforting touch, a listening ear, not judging, not fixing, just being there.
In the back of the rig you never can know what someone will confide. the EMS professional: driver, counselor, nurse, paper clerk, cleric..and more..
*grin*